Nonduality and "The Guru".

[Shivani Devi]

One thing I have to say, which would turn people off 'Gurus' is the dogged persistence of their disciples who try and 'sell' them or 'promote' them to others....if you were to follow all the advice and recommendations, you could spend your whole life 'Guru hopping' and sometimes, it reaches the stage where you don't know where to start, so you give up even before you begin (and they ALL say that THEIR Guru is the 'real deal' and all OTHER Gurus are fakes).

"I have this friend called Jeff...he is my Guru, he's helped me out and can do the same for you, you should see what he has to say".

"I have met Tony Parsons in person, he is my Guru and a really cool dude...knows a lot about Neo Advaita...you should totally check him out".

"Have you seen Mooji's latest offering? He's the 'enlightened being' for this age...he's my Guru and he's very wise, you should hear what he has to say, your life will never be the same".

...and on and on it goes...until your mind says ENOUGH!

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

One thing I have to say, which would turn people off 'Gurus' is the dogged persistence of their disciples who try and 'sell' them or 'promote' them to others....if you were to follow all the advice and recommendations, you could spend your whole life 'Guru hopping' and sometimes, it reaches the stage where you don't know where to start, so you give up even before you begin (and they ALL say that THEIR Guru is the 'real deal' and all OTHER Gurus are fakes).

"I have this friend called Jeff...he is my Guru, he's helped me out and can do the same for you, you should see what he has to say".

"I have met Tony Parsons in person, he is my Guru and a really cool dude...knows a lot about Neo Advaita...you should totally check him out".

"Have you seen Mooji's latest offering? He's the 'enlightened being' for this age...he's my Guru and he's very wise, you should hear what he has to say, your life will never be the same".

...and on and on it goes...until your mind says ENOUGH!

Yes, Yes and Yes. I have always put my effort into learning to hear the Guru within instead of listening to the ten thousand gurus out there.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

One thing I have to say, which would turn people off 'Gurus' is the dogged persistence of their disciples who try and 'sell' them or 'promote' them to others....if you were to follow all the advice and recommendations, you could spend your whole life 'Guru hopping' and sometimes, it reaches the stage where you don't know where to start, so you give up even before you begin (and they ALL say that THEIR Guru is the 'real deal' and all OTHER Gurus are fakes).

"I have this friend called Jeff...he is my Guru, he's helped me out and can do the same for you, you should see what he has to say".

"I have met Tony Parsons in person, he is my Guru and a really cool dude...knows a lot about Neo Advaita...you should totally check him out".

"Have you seen Mooji's latest offering? He's the 'enlightened being' for this age...he's my Guru and he's very wise, you should hear what he has to say, your life will never be the same".

...and on and on it goes...until your mind says ENOUGH!

There is a difference in what I am saying compared to what you are saying.

Everyone you mentioned is listen to what I say.

I am saying a guru takes one beyond words. They don't have to say anything because they are able to touch your being and move it along.

ENOUGH of the guru's that just talk your ears off.

Everyone is stuck on the talking.. listen to what I say etc..

That is not a realized guru.

The inner guru that you are talking about is another voice just talking is it not?

I have never, ever told anyone to go and talk to Jeff and listen to his sweet words and how they will change your life... That is silly.

If that is what you wanted go listen to Mooji.

If you want someone that can help you let go of your obstructions, open ones heart and feel love outpouring without ever saying a word..

That is the guru I am talking about.

It is like finding Abhinavagupta and telling everyone what it is like in his presence and everyone saying guru's are stupid and your in a cult :)

Enough of the talk.... Find the rare guru :)


Now on a side note....

What is interesting is those that want to put down the guru or anyone that has found one.

A guru is not for everyone, nor may this point in time be the right time for someone to find a guru.

It is a valid path, one taught by all the great masters by all the great traditions.

Amazing how it becomes such a negative here on this forum. Especially interesting when you have people make fun of or disparage a thing instead of spending 10 minutes to see if it is real.

It's much easier to disparage that which we don't understand isn't it?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

LOL Hi jonesboy -

If it makes you feel better, let's all call you Big Master Jonesboy - now, doesn't the ol' boy feel better already? ... Indeed ...

As I predicted in my earlier post, and already said, I am not interested to play word and Google games with you, most notably because even a most basic read through of your posts shows how little you actually know about Buddhist practice. And a more detailed review shows how inconsistently you apply your (intellectual) knowledge or understand its applicability to Buddhist spiritual practices. It's almost embarrassing if not tiresome. It's like speaking Korean to a Chinese person, who is arguing with you the definition of Korean words -- perhaps if the person was sincere, I'd be willing but I don't believe that it applies here.

But as I said, feel free to continue. I'm sure there are some whom will be enamored by your ads; it might be a little sidetrack for any genuinely interested in Buddhist practice, but apart from that they are more than welcome to have at your wares.

Just a small recommendation for you - if you want to stick to a storyline, it's best to stay consistent (for credibility purposes)















Just another hint for the wise - it's quite rude to attack and try to manipulate/recruit Buddhists under the guise of Buddhism or googled Buddhist articles/words, especially when you don't truly understand or live it to any degree. It's also unfair and intellectually dishonest, in my opinion, to want to claim superiority in a religion (that you don't really know) and play it both ways.

After now reading more of your posts, something I never used to do in detail, I must say, tut tut tut. Shake of a head.

Cheerio, jonesboy.

BT

I think this post speaks more about you than it does me sadly.

If you were really interested in a Buddhist debate you would have commented on my energy post which you said Buddhism doesn't talk about. Instead you want to attack the person.

Yes, very sad :(

As always, more than willing to demonstrate or back up what I am saying.

Have a good day :)

Tom

[jonesboy]

A little insight about finding the rare guru and what that means.

From the KULARNAVA TANTRA


Difficult to obtain is the Guru who pleased,

gifts to you in the fraction of a second, the

wealth of liberation, taking you across the ocean

of Samsara.



Difficult to obtain is the godly Guru who

gives to the disciple his own capacity in a

moment without any ceremony or effort; who

gives instruction in knowledge which instantly

promotes faith, is easy and gives happiness of

the Self.



He is the Guru who goes on giving knowledge

with facility, without strenuous practice

and the like, as one moves from island to island.

Difficult to obtain is the Guru whose mere

instruction gives rise to knowledge, even as food

gives instant contentment to the hungry.

Many are the Gurus like lamps in house and

house; but rare is the Guru who lights up all

like the sun.



Many are the Gurus who are proficient to the

utmost in Vedas, and Sastras; but rare is the

Guru who has attained to the supreme Truth.

Many are the Gurus on earth who give what

is other than the Self; but rare is the Guru in

the worlds who brings to light the Atman.

Many are the Gurus who know petty

mantras, medicaments; but rare is the Guru

who knows the Mantras handed down by the

Nigama, Agama and Sastra.



Many are the Gurus who rob the disciple of

his wealth; but rare is the Guru who removes

the afflictions of the disciple.



Many are they who are given to the discipline

and conduct according to varna (class),

asrama (stage) and kula (family); but he who is

devoid of all volition is the Guru rare to find.

He is the Guru by whose very contact there

flows the supreme Ananda; the intelligent

man shall choose such a one as the Guru and

no other.



By the mere sight of him whose intelligence

is active only till the advent of experience, one

attains liberation, there is no doubt of it.

Rare is the Guru who has eaten up Doubt

which has engulfed the three worlds with all

that is moving and unmoving.



As in the vicinity of fire the butter gets

melted, so in the proximity of the holy Guru all

sin dissolves



As lighted fire burns up all fuel - dry and

moist - so the glance of the Guru burns up in a

moment the sin of the disciple.



As a heap of cotton blown up by a great

storm scatters in all the ten directions, so the

heap of sins is driven away by the compassion

of the Guru.

****

So again a real guru isn't about talking. It is his presence that sharing that moves one along, removing obstructions, and lighting one up like the sun.

Not from talking or telling you what to do.

Hopefully the words of Abhinavagupta will help others understand more of what I have been trying to say.

[Bindu*]

So again a real guru isn't about talking. It is his presence that sharing that moves one along, removing obstructions, and lighting one up like the sun.

For me the Guru principle is attached to a lineage.

Attaching myself to this lineage of guru's is like plugging into an electric sockle..having the shakti (energy) to your disposal.

Just thinking of my Guru is like being enfolded in a sense of prescense, an energy field.
If I sit for meditation and using a technique of some kind....then when thinking of the Guru... the state of meditation gets instantly deeper...the Guru needs not to be there in person, or even alive in the body.

So the lineage thing is quite important I guess......

No need to have a personGuru telling you to pick up his garbage et.c.

Just following a body of teachings is enough....

The Diksha (initiation) issue is also powerful I believe....

Talking about my own experience which may not be the same for all.


.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Bindu*

For me the Guru principle is attached to a lineage.

Attaching myself to this lineage of guru's is like plugging into an electric sockle..having the shakti (energy) to your disposal.

Just thinking of my Guru is like being enfolded in a sense of prescense, an energy field.
If I sit for meditation and using a technique of some kind....then when thinking of the Guru... the state of meditation gets instantly deeper...the Guru needs not to be there in person, or even alive in the body.

So the lineage thing is quite important I guess......

No need to have a personGuru telling you to pick up his garbage et.c.

Just following a body of teachings is enough....

The Diksha (initiation) issue is also powerful I believe....

Talking about my own experience which may not be the same for all.


.

I agree completely.

Also realize that all lineages start from the teachings of realized beings. The good ones anyways. That light, that energy from the divine source of the guru is passed down through the teachings of the lineage.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Bindu*

For me the Guru principle is attached to a lineage.

Attaching myself to this lineage of guru's is like plugging into an electric sockle..having the shakti (energy) to your disposal.

Just thinking of my Guru is like being enfolded in a sense of prescense, an energy field.

Yes.

An image (in cultural wrappings) after the descent of Spirit/plugging into i.e. initiation/empowerment:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5d/60/95/5...-artifacts.jpg

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

There is a difference in what I am saying compared to what you are saying.

Everyone you mentioned is listen to what I say.

I am saying a guru takes one beyond words. They don't have to say anything because they are able to touch your being and move it along.

ENOUGH of the guru's that just talk your ears off.

Everyone is stuck on the talking.. listen to what I say etc..

That is not a realized guru.

The inner guru that you are talking about is another voice just talking is it not?

I have never, ever told anyone to go and talk to Jeff and listen to his sweet words and how they will change your life... That is silly.

If that is what you wanted go listen to Mooji.

If you want someone that can help you let go of your obstructions, open ones heart and feel love outpouring without ever saying a word..

That is the guru I am talking about.

It is like finding Abhinavagupta and telling everyone what it is like in his presence and everyone saying guru's are stupid and your in a cult :)

Enough of the talk.... Find the rare guru :)


Now on a side note....

What is interesting is those that want to put down the guru or anyone that has found one.

A guru is not for everyone, nor may this point in time be the right time for someone to find a guru.

It is a valid path, one taught by all the great masters by all the great traditions.

Amazing how it becomes such a negative here on this forum. Especially interesting when you have people make fun of or disparage a thing instead of spending 10 minutes to see if it is real.

It's much easier to disparage that which we don't understand isn't it?

This whole forum is a virtual hive of negativity, ego contests and clique associations, my friend. If you are not arguing with somebody, then nobody wants to talk to you and so, I'm pretty much over SF.

So tell me then...what can a Guru do for ME? because it is going to take a lot to undo 40 years of negative social conditioning and cognitive bias about them.

If you want someone that can help you let go of your obstructions, open ones heart and feel love outpouring without ever saying a word..

Please tell me, how is that possible over the internet?

[Shivani Devi]

I'm just tired of all the 'pressure' from those who divide people up according their 'beliefs', then take an opposing stance and attack them for it..."Guru people vs Non-Guru people"...."Neo-Advaitins vs Traditional Advaitins" etc....where there is one thing, the opposite thing will develop just so human beings can assert their egos as a point of contention to it and at the end of the day, after all the niceties and pleasantries have been dispensed with...IDGAF!