Nonduality and "The Guru".

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by revolver

I have read many postings here, and I must say you are a very level headed person, I myself have had an experience in Consciousness, and it has changed my life completely. What I have read from what you have shared here is the words from a Enlightened being, we are all so called Gurus within, you have found your inner Being and this is what i see shining from you, through your words, a place like this may not be for you ?.

Hi revolver,

I am a big believer in the Guru within. At the same time I have seen where that guru within can lead one astray.

Wasn't there someone using that guru within that was telling them that for them to feel bliss again they would have to give up their family and friends to experience it again?

I would disagree with that 100%.

Nothing wrong with the guru within, but often he is influenced by our ego, by our obstructions and depth. It can lead us away from that which we seek.

I know that a teacher and a guru isn't for everyone nor am I saying it is. I started out in a system with no teachers and the mantra is The Guru is within you. :)

I have just said I have found one and it has made all the difference.

What is interesting is the closed hearts that deny a guru or a teacher. That is more how open ones heart truly is more than anything else. How can you receive if it is closed from whatever being or thing may come around to help you? More importantly if it is closed to receiving, how can you give with an open heart?

While I have the same people here arguing with me as always, people do show up, people do come around. Some stay, some come and go. In the end it is all about helping people. All you can do is throw out seeds and hope.

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Interesting, are you now saying that you believe in transmissions and that someone should go to a qualified teacher for one?

Because you have mentioned many times that you don't believe in empowerments, transmission, don't believe in a teacher and that Buddhism is whatever you want it to be.

Do you just disagree with people to disagree because it is very hard to tell what you actually believe Sky. Do you just say whatever the group is saying to try and be cool?

Very hard to tell.

Very hard keeps you guessing though lol.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Very hard keeps you guessing though lol.

It speaks more to your character and not in a good way.

It would be nice to meet the real you one day.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi revolver,

I am a big believer in the Guru within. At the same time I have seen where that guru within can lead one astray.

Wasn't there someone using that guru within that was telling them that for them to feel bliss again they would have to give up their family and friends to experience it again?

I would disagree with that 100%.

Nothing wrong with the guru within, but often he is influenced by our ego, by our obstructions and depth. It can lead us away from that which we seek.

I know that a teacher and a guru isn't for everyone nor am I saying it is. I started out in a system with no teachers and the mantra is The Guru is within you. :)

I have just said I have found one and it has made all the difference.

What is interesting is the closed hearts that deny a guru or a teacher. That is more how open ones heart truly is more than anything else. How can you receive if it is closed from whatever being or thing may come around to help you? More importantly if it is closed to receiving, how can you give with an open heart?

While I have the same people here arguing with me as always, people do show up, people do come around. Some stay, some come and go. In the end it is all about helping people. All you can do is throw out seeds and hope.

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

I think we are seeing the word guru differently, the Guru within is that which comes from the Source or Consciousness, the so called believed guru within comes from the mind, the mind learns what a true Guru is and tries to copy it, but the true Guru within is genuine, this is how I see it, and after all we are only trying to describe this with mere words.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I go to a Buddhist temple close to my house often and have received empowerments from the Rinpoche.

Anyway Let's look at your posts showing how misinformed I am....

I agree sutras are fundamental but you have to understand your audience now don't you?

Do you know you are talking to people that don't believe Tibetan Buddhism is Buddhist at all? How about the same people who believe that Buddhism is whatever you want it to be?

Even still, you can read about the Heart Sutra all day long and without the practices you would never achieve understanding of Emptiness.

Buddhism is about the practices, the realization, the sutra are there to help guide and show the way.

Still not seeing how you disagree with my statement.

Are you not familiar with Yidam deity practices in Tibetan Buddhism? Here maybe this will help.

Also, Zen is not Tibetan :) Maybe you are confusing Tibetan with Mahayana?

As far as Zen working with Divine Beings.. maybe looking into the details a little more will help you.

If you had read my posts you would understand I was referring to the end state of advaita compared to that of Buddhism and Kashmir Shaivism.

I think you just read my post to quickly with the mindset of disagree without reading.

Are you familiar with what the Primordial State is, in Buddhism?

Here let me help you understand how energy plays a role in Buddhism.

Kashmir Shaivism would agree as would most Traditions.

Maybe you should google some more. It might help with some of the misunderstanding you are having.

I think we can agree that we both have a different depth of understanding not just what reality is made up of within Buddhism but what they practice as well.

It is always best to learn with an open mind than to disparage another with a closed one.

Give it a shot

LOL Hi jonesboy -

If it makes you feel better, let's all call you Big Master Jonesboy - now, doesn't the ol' boy feel better already? ... Indeed ...

As I predicted in my earlier post, and already said, I am not interested to play word and Google games with you, most notably because even a most basic read through of your posts shows how little you actually know about Buddhist practice. And a more detailed review shows how inconsistently you apply your (intellectual) knowledge or understand its applicability to Buddhist spiritual practices. It's almost embarrassing if not tiresome. It's like speaking Korean to a Chinese person, who is arguing with you the definition of Korean words -- perhaps if the person was sincere, I'd be willing but I don't believe that it applies here.

But as I said, feel free to continue. I'm sure there are some whom will be enamored by your ads; it might be a little sidetrack for any genuinely interested in Buddhist practice, but apart from that they are more than welcome to have at your wares.

Just a small recommendation for you - if you want to stick to a storyline, it's best to stay consistent (for credibility purposes)

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Amazing isn't it?

You can actually show Buddhist teaching and techniques over and over that mention kundalini and still people will continue to deny it is Buddhist.

People don't want to learn what Buddhism is. If they did they would do some searching about it, post links to teachings etc.

It is all what they want Buddhism to be and if it doesn't fit then an entire culture, the most popular form of Buddhism is just denied, laughed at and told not Buddhist.

I really don't get that to be honest.

Since I have been adding to the discourse and continued posting will add no value to the discussion. Either from personal experience or from quoting texts I will take my leave from this thread.

All the best to everyone.

Bye.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi BT,

I never claimed to be a Buddhist. As a matter of fact I have said I am not many times in many threads.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I go to a Buddhist temple close to my house often and have received empowerments from the Rinpoche.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A Buddhist is someone who takes refuge in the 3 Jewels.

What you have is people who don't take refuge, take from Buddhism what they want or what fits there belief system and still want to call it Buddhism and that they are Buddhist.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I am much more than a believer. I have shared my realization of emptiness of self so I know when people are blowing smoke..

.. But when you then try to promote that as a Buddhist Dharma.. well that is very wrong.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Then again why are you in the Buddhist forum if you don't believe in the teachings?

Another example....

That is what ones true nature is. Don't you believe all Buddhist teachings 200%?

Because you don't understand read and find someone learned on the topic just like bodhidharma said to do.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

When did I say it doesn't matter and how am I on a different path than Buddhism?

Have I not shared what Yidam Deity practice is and why someone should do it? It is very similar to what I call merging.

Are you not familiar with what the Kayas are in Buddhism?

The silence I talked about is Yab Yum...

I am definitely on the Buddhist path but not a Buddhist :)

To think I am not ready to understand emptiness is again you not understanding that I have realized it.. it is not an intellectual thing for me.

Just another hint for the wise - it's quite rude to attack and try to manipulate/recruit Buddhists under the guise of Buddhism or googled Buddhist articles/words, especially when you don't truly understand or live it to any degree. It's also unfair and intellectually dishonest, in my opinion, to want to claim superiority in a religion (that you don't really know) and play it both ways.

After now reading more of your posts, something I never used to do in detail, I must say, tut tut tut. Shake of a head.

Cheerio, jonesboy.

BT

[revolver]

I think the ego gets very jealous of someone who has experienced Oneness, it will say and do anything to try and destroy the one who has experienced Oneness, its simply the nature of the ego.

[blossomingtree]

I like that comment, revolver, thank you

BT

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi revolver,

I am a big believer in the Guru within. At the same time I have seen where that guru within can lead one astray.

Wasn't there someone using that guru within that was telling them that for them to feel bliss again they would have to give up their family and friends to experience it again?

I would disagree with that 100%.

Nothing wrong with the guru within, but often he is influenced by our ego, by our obstructions and depth. It can lead us away from that which we seek.

I know that a teacher and a guru isn't for everyone nor am I saying it is. I started out in a system with no teachers and the mantra is The Guru is within you. :)

I have just said I have found one and it has made all the difference.

What is interesting is the closed hearts that deny a guru or a teacher. That is more how open ones heart truly is more than anything else. How can you receive if it is closed from whatever being or thing may come around to help you? More importantly if it is closed to receiving, how can you give with an open heart?

While I have the same people here arguing with me as always, people do show up, people do come around. Some stay, some come and go. In the end it is all about helping people. All you can do is throw out seeds and hope.

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

Namaste.

It can also be the case that the human ego misrepresents or mis-translates messages that are received 'in spirit'.

For example, there is a difference between giving up something and giving up the whole attachment to something.

In your example, the message may have been "you must give up the whole attachment to your family and friends if what they are doing is causing you not experience that bliss anymore".

I am in exactly the same predicament here, so I can speak from experience. Applying the method of 'energetic cord cutting' isn't the same as giving up family and friends, but not letting what they say or do distract you from your higher purpose, however sometimes this needs to be done and 'giving up' family and friends isn't the same thing as giving up smoking or chocolate cake...it simply means not to let them continually steal your energy and drag you down into their petty hate/fear cycle.

However, the ego interprets it as "I must shun my family and friends" and this also gets viewed by another to mean exactly the same thing.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

I like that comment, revolver, thank you

BT

Thanks, but at the same time we are all already there, its just the ego that keeps it hidden from us, the one who has experienced Oneness is no better than the ignorant one, for we are all One in Consciousness, but I believe you already know this, or have experienced this.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by revolver

I think the ego gets very jealous of someone who has experienced Oneness, it will say and do anything to try and destroy the one who has experienced Oneness, its simply the nature of the ego.

H8ers gun h8 - enlightened ones too, ay.