Why does God not show him/her/itself?

[Busby]

Originally Posted by davidsun

My mind and spirit grooved right along with everything you wrote in your mini--bible ('bible' = 'book') here, Busby ...

... except they both 'balked' when I came to "We, each of us, isn't in the universe, we are [?] the universe.."

My 'thought' and 'sense' is that this statement is both an illogical conclusion and preposterous claim.

This is where consideration of other people's conclusions (wherever they may have been recorded) provide contrasting conclusions to check one's own conclusions against. This one happens to be from The Bible: "In 'him' we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28)

Not that others conclusions might not also be preposterous and illogical, mind you! One has to very logical (and therefore selective) before deciding what one 'assents' to. Establishing intersubjective concurrence is not a 'simple' process, just as building any 'house' that can accommodate more than one person is.

All of the above offered as my subjective opinion for your subjective consideration and 'judgment' as to its logicality and meaning-full-ness to you of course.

The claim, davidsun, that we are the universe may well be preposterous, pretentious and blatant if one is given to believe that there is a 'God' up there(?) (a separate entity) who represents the world of religion - that world we have been given to understand exists under the reign of this divine entity. In this case (being blatant) we would almost have to turn to the laws of blasphemy to protect mankind from diverging off the path we (or at least some of us apparently) 'know' to be the right one. I'm not being sarcastic, I understand that and everyone should believe what is right for him or her.
However we don't seem to be moving forwards very much - still discussing and arguing about the same old things while churches empty and the consumer society spreads its wings even further. We are looking forward to the promise of new markets in China and India and those people in those countries are looking forward to owning a Mercedes and a house in the country. We, who have such things in various editions cannot deny them, they have every right, as we do, to be part of a self-satisfying society.

At the same time we are receiving more and more information about this place we are in - NDEs, OBEs, Telepathy, those who astral travel, mystics, astronomers, physics, and a host of other sources.

Personally I am neither atheist nor agnostic but what I do know is that this entity who had his son nailed up on a cross isn't for me. (Tongue in cheek writing this).

But what i do know is that various moments of my life have been touched by
something which either surrounds me or in which I am embedded. One of these moments indicated to me that everything is one. This happened to me when I was twenty and I have never forgotten it. It repeated itself two years after my wife's death in a manner directly concerning her, that (to use a common expression) blew my mind.

So in my book it's time we moved forwards and it's time to take a big leap in evolution, we can transcend our awareness in mind or in matter (science) but we need to take a step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ztlIAYTCU

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Kioma

How is our presence not a part of the universe?

Even when we are physically no longer there, our presence, once manifest, cannot ever be undone - it echoes through the future into eternity. So also does it echo into the past, in all those moments that lead to our manifestation in an unbroken chain throughout time and space.

We are inseparable from the universe, and the universe is quite literally inseparable from us. We are the universe.

Yes, of course & well said ...Oneness... self-evident.

It seems likely that this orientation provides clarity and equanimity as inherent to it.

~ J

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Busby

But what I do know is that various moments of my life have been touched by something which either surrounds me or in which I am embedded. One of these moments indicated to me that everything is one.

So your 'we' (in "we are the universe") was all-(not-just-human)-inclusive? In which case your statement was a tautology.

Originally Posted by Busby

So in my book it's time we moved forwards and it's time to take a big leap in evolution, we can transcend our awareness in mind or in matter (science) but we need to take a step.

That's what my book is all about: "It is because we haven’t yet developed broad enough perspective and good enough sense of proportion that, like children who disregard and underestimate elements of importance, we haphazardly cause and suffer injurious repercussion. And it is because 'we' [here referencing humans] don’t truly appreciate Life’s blessings and haven’t learned to heed its ways that we make such a mess of things, like ungrateful, insubordinate adolescents."

High-Five, Busby!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Busby

At the same time we are receiving more and more information about this place we are in - NDEs, OBEs, Telepathy, those who astral travel, mystics, astronomers, physics, and a host of other sources.

Personally I am neither atheist nor agnostic but what I do know is that this entity who had his son nailed up on a cross isn't for me. (Tongue in cheek writing this).

Seth, a 'spirit' channeled by Jane Roberts, said a lot about the Christ 'Entity'. You might find her book, Seth Speaks quite entertaining on this score).

Here are some summaries of Seth's 'views' of 'God' and 'Christ' (I am not asserting that they are necessarily 'true') from http://www.gestaltreality.com/articl...seth-material/ :

There is a God, whom Seth referred to as “All That Is” and described as a “primary energy gestalt”. God is composed of self-replicating and inexhaustible mental energy, and contains all of Creation within it. God is therefore a gestalt of all existence, as in Pantheism and Panentheism (a gestalt being a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts). The mental energy of God is the composite substance of all things, including all beings, all universes, and all events and phenomena. God’s consciousness extends into all things as they are created, and is therefore omnipresent. For these reasons, all things in existence, including physical matter, have life and consciousness. God wishes to experience existence in all its forms and ramifications, and through its creations is able to do this. God is therefore dynamic and ever-changing and shares in the failures, triumphs, perfections and imperfections of its creations. The individuals that exist within God, though part of God, have free will and self-determination. If there is reality outside of God, the Seth personality was not aware of it.

and

Christ, who still exists, is a highly evolved entity who has existence in many systems of reality. However, Christ has the same relationship to God that all other individuals do — i.e., he is part of God. At the time of Christ, the Christ entity incarnated as three individuals — John the Baptist,Jesus of Nazareth, and Paul or Saul of Tarsus — and each was to some degree aware of his role in founding a new religion (although Paul/Saul was not aware of his role until after his conversion to Christianity). Seth said that Jesus was not crucified, and that it is not in the nature of enlightened individuals to sacrifice themselves. Rather, a willing and deluded surrogate, who believed himself to be the Messiah, was substituted in Jesus’ place, and it was this surrogate whom Judas betrayed (and who was then crucified). Jesus was then able to be “resurrected” because he had not actually died. Seth said that the crucifixion of Jesus did occur as a shared psychic event, but it did not occur as a physical event.

Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Greetings Greenslade,

Hanging in there and well wishes to you and the family.

There is the mental going on and chemical and electrical exchanges between the brain and body. From what I understand.

There is also an energenic body or field. The physical body also holds memories. This I have experienced through what is called "emotional release". Experienced when I was practicing message therapy and had massage work done on me.

The body may hold memories in areas and develop an armour of sorts. When these areas are worked on, softened up can experience release of held emotions.

So, where am I going with this? Brings up the question just where is memory held? There is the process of molecular changes that cells go through, which include cells in the brain. There is also patterns formed with in our thoughts through repetive positive confirmations and/or negative thoughts.

All this brings for me into question just how our minds processes information. How this affects not only our minds, but bodies as well.

In regards to God where is this belief and for some knowing reside. Still holds up through all the mental and physical changes one may go through. These changes also affects the energenic body/field. It is all connected.

Yet, there seems this constant that flows through all this. Gives a sense and existance of being alive, being connected, being.

It really needs no explanation for it is just there. Conscious of it in one way or another, whether related as a God aspect or just know through experiencing life.

A question comes to me. What is being looked for? If already there, then what is being sought? If oneself, then what is missing or thought not there?

You see, this is when it goes beyond the mind. To give myself a pause. To just notice and bring attention to what is happening right now. To feel life just pulsing around me, and what is around me. Not attempting to control and notice what it may bring. Then if needed adjust.

Whatever, Wherever, conscious may be and resides, it seems to me is with in every one and everything. How one may be able to process the information seems the choice given at times and the ways one may find is able to do so.
Other aspects of it seems just built into what is created.

Not seperate, just where my, yours, anyone's focus may be placed at the moment and as one is created to be, seems to add to what consciousness may contain or ways it is noticed.

It is quite fascinating. We are not so much finding God as we are finding ourselves, so it seems to me at the moment.

The trick may be to remember what is found.

Thank you and stay well

Greetings Moonglow

Glad to hear that you're still alive and kicking, the planet wouldn't be the same without you.

Science used to think that we held memories in our heads, but much of that is changing. How we perceive the nature of memories themselves is also changing, because it's not thought that we hold genetic memories that go back generations. Do you remember being a caveman perchance? It's also thought that memories are not stored locally, although it's not known where they're actually stored. The brain is less of a storage medium but an a 'management mechanism'.

We are conscious of our memories and since matter is 'solid' because our consciousness makes it that way.......

The brain processes signals in various way and we become conscious not of how they are processed but the 'end product' of that processing. Light hits the back of your eye and what you see is essentially what's called a bitmap, which is literally like an image that's printed on graph paper. From there it's flattened out but it's still a 2D image. From there it's divided into three parts. One part of the brain processes motion and that's the easiest data to process - it's a survival technique and most people are instantly aware of motion before anything else. The next part that's processed as colour, then spatial awareness. Each of those processes happens in a different part of the brain and at different speeds. In time, everything is stitched together and you see a 3D image.

Much of how we perceive reality is the same way, we don't see the reality but the result of the processing. Something similar happens with experiential reality, that is also processed in various ways - initially by the Limbic System or the so-called 'lizard brain' - it has as much to do with your Spirituality as your Spirituality does. If your lizard brain perceives a piece of information as a threat, it's ignored even if it's a great Spiritual truth.

Somewhere along the line, all of that 'mechanical' process becomes subjective experience. When things that happen to us beyond our control, is that God's will or are we just looking for agency - as in 'something' that makes things happen?

We know that our thoughts affect so many things in our Lives, and people can become their illnesses. The power of the mind is so great that thoughts can actually change our physical bodies and not just on an energetic level.

All of the processes that happen to us are in a constant feedback loop with each other. Yes all those aspects of ourselves are connected but not just connected, they are in symbiotic relationships with each other. And we as a mechanism are in symbiotic relationships with other mechanisms, which is then fed into the various internal processing mechanisms. Round and round she goes and where she stops, nobody knows.

As humans we have basic questions that we don't even know we have, and sometimes people find ways to address those questions. "Who am I?" "Why am I here?" "What is my place in this Universe?" If you look at Spirituality, sometimes you'll see one or more of those questions coming through because they are fundamental to Spirituality. Yes people are talking about ideologies and theologies but there's something underpinning all that. Are they trying to understand themselves - and that question is very relevant to the question of who/what is God. Our relationship with God is a reflection of the relationship we have with ourselves.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

It is quite fascinating. We are not so much finding God as we are finding ourselves, so it seems to me at the moment.

The trick may be to remember what is found.

Delicious, quite delicious.

Perhaps, we are looking right at God and don't recognize it. Instead we are annoyed that someone is blocking our view and we are stretching our necks and trying to look over God's shoulder to see if perhaps God is out there somewhere.

When someone is seeking," said Siddhartha, "it happens quite easily that he only sees the thing that he is seeking; that he is unable to find anything, unable to absorb anything, because he is only thinking of the thing he is seeking, because he has a goal, because he is obsessed with his goal. Seeking means: to have a goal; but finding means: to be free, to be receptive, to have no goal. You, O worthy one, are perhaps indeed a seeker, for in striving towards your goal, you do not see many things that are under your nose.
― Herman Hesse, Siddhartha

Originally Posted by Greenslade

..... How we perceive the nature of memories themselves is also changing, because it's not thought that we hold genetic memories that go back generations. Do you remember being a caveman perchance?

Hmmmm....more of an aside then anything else (i.e. not trying to contradict here) but in reading this it struck me that I can in one sense answer yes to that question. My genes are a sifted part, a test sample, of a larger gene pool that all of humanity holds "in common". Within that pool, and now within me, there are genes that came about and were selected for during that time of the cave man. That part of me, that Id that I was born with, very much does remember being a "caveman", as well as times prior to and since. We human animals are formed by both nature and nurture. That nature side of us, though like all memory becomes a bit fuzzy as the years to by, goes go way back in time, even beyond the time when I could have been called a human. Though it is old and inexact, it still plays a major role in how I as a human view and react to my world.
That too is a delicious and wondrous thing to think about! We are in a sense, the result of all of life that has preceded us, and we carry a memory of it within ourselves. God, it can be argued depending on how one chooses to relate to that word and the science, created and continues to create all life on earth. Although my memory is fuzzy and imperfect, I do remember much of that, that is perhaps one place God be seen. I am both man (nurture) and God (nature), God shows up within me. Some people may find that idea a bit fishy, but then, I was once a fish and in part still am. Which reminds me, I need a shower... or maybe I should have a bath.

.....and other nonaquatic vertebrates exhibit gill slits even though they never breathe through gills. These slits are found in the embryos of all vertebrates because they share as common ancestors the fish in which these structures first evolved....

[BigJohn]

Why does God not show him/her/itself?

For those who believe they are God, this is a moot issue.

For those who believe there is no God, this is a dumb question.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Why does God not show him/her/itself?

For those who believe they are God, this is a moot issue.

For those who believe there is no God, this is a dumb question.

For those who believe God is everything there is no question. (<- an equivalency to the moot case by inversion)

Originally Posted by Jyotir

For those who believe God is everything there is no question. (<- an equivalency to the moot case by inversion)