Why does God not show him/her/itself?

[Starman]

Originally Posted by neil

Think about the foetus who does not make it through gestation through to birth. The foetus has not developed a personality, however at the moment of conception, Soul was blue printed "so to speak" with the genetic DNA sequence given to it biologically from the parents. And now before birth that foetus has been disconnected from the "foetal forming flesh body".

The foetus is now a Soul'self with an identity, yet still has not formed a spiritual body in the likeness of what it was to be if the newly conceived one had have made it to birth.
I am informed that the unformed emanating spiritual body & also the unformed soul will continue to develop to an infant & also slowly gain ever increasingly an awareness & personality, all within the spiritual realms.

I believe that we all possess the "Christ-consciousness" and it is just a matter of waking up to it. In my opinion all the power that ever was or will be is here now, it is just a matter of opening up to it. There are no mysteries and nothing is hiding from us, rather we are the one's playing hide and seek as a natural part of soul growth. So unformed developmental issues are issues of the mind and body. There are people who are deformed, like the late Dr. Stephen Hawkins, who had ALS for almost 60-years, and although he was not born with it his distorted image did not effect his contribution, which by any measure was genius.

I think physical distortions of the human body, whether born with them or not, as well as many mental disorders, have a unique spiritual component. I have talked with people diagnosed with schizophrenia (there are different types) who had incredible spiritual insights. People who the world rejected because they did not fit the norm, who seem to have a greater spiritual embrace then those who did fit the norm here on Earth.

I used to work in new born at a big hospital and took care of babies, some where diabetic, some where crack babies, many were healthy and well formed, while others were deformed, but all had something to offer. We apply the dynamics of this physical world and how humans live in it to the spiritual realms when in my experience the spiritual realms are the opposite of this physical world.

This world is but a reflection of spirit, a reflection of living energy, and a reflection is the opposite of what is reflecting it. That is why when we look in the mirror our right in the mirror is on the left side of our body. A reflection is light bouncing off of and image, and as is widely believed we are created in God's image, and yes, it also says likeness. Which brings me back to us possessing the Christ consciousness, if only in latent form. The innate latent potential is within each entity/soul in my opinion.

Originally Posted by davidsun

If you haven't gotten my 'points' previously, which apparently you haven't, you won't 'get', anything else I may say: the 'referee' has(now!) 'spoken':

I want to spend more time with my Cognitive Behaviour Therapy Practitioner's course so I'll be spending a lot less time on the forums, for me that's a far more effective use of my time. Spirituality is as Spirituality does not as Spirituality says it is, and that's something so many people on this forum don't seem to understand. You included. What was the quote? "By his deeds shall he be known?"

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Starman

This world is but a reflection of spirit...

Agree on the possible stated. The words are the same words I use but do we see the same thing. As above, below. The reflection. This is what I think and take from the word reflection. If a soul can make it here it can make it there in peace and harmony, also as above below. But what does seem to be missing when talking about past lives is this, should we forget past lives since we "would" no longer wish to live them but reflects our ties and desire to (to be and remain) this plane not letting go. Do we reflect on the reasons and what has been learned about giving up. Do we reflect on the lessons or does this not apply. The expression of the past life is a lesson isn't it. Learning. Are we suppose to reflect, maybe.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by lemex

Agree on the possible stated. The words are the same words I use but do we see the same thing. As above, below. The reflection. This is what I think and take from the word reflection. If a soul can make it here it can make it there in peace and harmony, also as above below. But what does seem to be missing when talking about past lives is this, should we forget past lives since we "would" no longer wish to live them but reflects our ties and desire to (to be and remain) this plane not letting go. Do we reflect on the reasons and what has been learned about giving up. Do we reflect on the lessons or does this not apply. The expression of the past life is a lesson isn't it. Learning. Are we suppose to reflect, maybe.

I am of the belief that on this Earthly plane we name things and interpret things according to how we reason but beyond this physical plane lessons are viewed as energy currents that we either flow with or not. There is no judgement, although it is popularly believed that in the after death experience and angel, or other benevolent entity, will review the life we just lived with us.

The Hebrew Kabbalah says that when we die our memory unfolds in reverse[ what we most recently experienced is shown to us first and it goes backwards to our birth. Also it is said that while we are shown the life that we just lived, we will also experience how our actions and words effected others. Our memory, after physical death, is a perfect and full recollection according to this perspective.

Regardless, reasoning and logic are products of the brain and we leave our brain behind at the time of death. People with brain damage often cannot reason things out. So I am saying that beyond this word intuition may be the teacher and not reasoning. In my opinion the closer we get to our divine source the less reflecting we will do. For with that primordial source of life there is no past or future, there is only now; the eternal moment.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by neil

I will listen to what you have to say once that you start to say, that you are experiencing what I experience.

In which case you will remain 'i'solated in your own personal experiential 'bubble' - which, inasmuch as it yours, will never be mine fer sure, neil.

[neil]

Originally Posted by davidsun

In which case you will remain 'i'solated in your own personal experiential 'bubble' - which, inasmuch as it yours, will never be mine fer sure, neil.

No David no...I have been in your situation of delving into what you are. In fact I have been into pretty much everything that everyone on this site is into. I have had all of the books from self help, religious, spiritual, new age, hypnotism, clairvoyance, scriptures, David everything that I read on this site has been debunked through practical proofs via my experiences with mainly evil minded entities whilst being backed up by nice beings.
I have had every dirty nasty dark evil minded trick thrown at myself and all of my possessions.

And once I figured it all out, I rounded up all of those books "except for the bible & the Padgett Messages" and turned them in the bin.

You can not understand that fact. Because you have definately not knowingly experienced dark entities influence & attack.

Those beings are into everything that Earthlings do in their lives, however as i said you can not be capable of grasping what I say because of your lack of experience in that field.

I know have met many others..."many others" that have experienced some of what i have, & they still did not discover the one single most DISCUSTING HIDEOUS EVIL THING that is being perpetrated by those evil minded beings whom are in "plaque proportion".

Dave I see what is hidden in front of me "as scripture says"...You have not...if you had, you would definitely be carefully broaching the subject with others whom you meet on your path.

I have spoken to God knows how many person of all walks of life about it, & I have found zero persons that have realized what is truely going on & why Earthlings can not become all seeing all knowing magical entities like the first Parents were before they were dragged down from their magical spiritual God given right, from the moment that they were created.

I'm telling one & all, the insidiousness of what is hidden from Earthlings is so mind boggling, that as soon as my dad is in a nursing home, & he is getting right close now at the age of eighty eight years, well David, I will be very soon after, hastily making my exit from this planet "PERIOD".
Because all of the very many healers of all fields who have tried in vain to rid me of those entities have failed miserably.

I could add way more to the above but I know it will fall on deaf ears.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by neil

Because all of the very many healers of all fields who have tried in vain to rid me of those entities have failed miserably.

That's because 'you' (your false-belief reinforced thoughts and feelings) are continuing to 'make' 'your' self 'sick' - i.e. susceptible to such 'infection', IMO.

I would bet that you haven't seen and registered the crucial importance of the disclosures shared by way of Joe Dispenza's videos.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...#post19 09051

You still subscribe to false-beliefs, such as: "What happens to 'me' is a function of 'outside' (of 'me') factors."

Here's a tip:

"God is not mocked: As a man soweth, so shall he reap." Blah-de-Blah.

[neil]

Originally Posted by davidsun

That's because 'you' (your false-belief reinforced thoughts and feelings) are continuing to 'make' 'your' self 'sick' - i.e. susceptible to such 'infection', IMO.

I would bet that you haven't seen and registered the crucial importance of the disclosures shared by way of Joe Dispenza's videos.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...#post19 09051

You still subscribe to false-beliefs, such as: "What happens to 'me' is a function of 'outside' (of 'me') factors."

Here's a tip:

"God is not mocked: As a man soweth, so shall he reap." Blah-de-Blah.

.
.
.
.
🙂

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

Hey there Moonglow

Originally Posted by Moonglow

It seems two things with in one thing is being discussed. Meaning Consciousness in its wholeness and consciousness emerging with in one.

When I say something like consciousness gives rise to creation (or words to that effect), I am exploring a bit the premis that it is through creation/formation consciousness is noticed and/or becomes fluid/movement.

Yes, through the individual it appears as layered or progressive. In other lifeforms it may appear similar, but in its own way. Meaning humans have the ability to rationalize and reason stuff. Do other lifeforms, atleast what is known do this? Don't they also have a conscious of some kind?

Conscious is fundamental, which means that's where it all 'begins' from a kinda linear understanding. So you are consciousness first and foremost, then you become human, take form etc.... Isn't that what's happening in the discussion of Past Lives? That you as consciousness make the choice to come here, be human and everything else that happens? As a human you are consciousness becoming conscious of itself within the context of the human experience as you rationalise and reason stuff. You are consciousness becoming conscious of.....You have become conscious that consciousness becomes fluid/movement. I'm not challenging what you're saying, but I am saying there is more to it.

So the question is, are you conscious of what you are conscious of? And that just when you think you have consciousness nailed down, it moves the goalposts and there is consciousness beyond hat you are conscious of?

Like, how does a seed know to become what it will? Sure there is genetics involved, but could this be also a form of consciousness?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

What is consciousness in and of itself? Is it aware of being, even if formless?( atleast as far as the mind fully conceiving it?).

It is encompassing.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Taking these thoughts and God being Consciousness being, without formation/creation of some kind would it exist and if so would it be aware of existing?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Is God conscious of what we are conscious of, and as such do we then create God and not the other way around? What happens when there is nothing but consciousness to become conscious of?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

This is where my mind ties existance with consciousness and giving awareness of consciousness existing. It is not stagnant, it flows and moves. One can notice the movements, connections, and will say what appears changes. Are these the same for being consciousness? It a bit of brain twister, suppose.

It's not a brainteaser when you are conscious of.... There are no movements, there is no relationship between consciousness in this moment and consciousness after you become conscious of something. There are no connections because there is nothing to connect to anything else - there is just consciousness, all on its lonesome. There is no awareness because it's the brain/mind that is aware.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Consciousness could viewed as energy, suppose. Forming in the mind and what is created. As physical being and ability to envision beyond what may appear, suppose can expand ones consciousness to perceive what may lay beyond the thoughts and physical senses. Presence being there. Bringing consciousness to the individual to notice what is already there. Knowing without what, how, why, and even who.

Can you view consciousness as anything, or are you trying to find visualisations as rationale for the mind?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Yes, it is the self, spirit, presence,,emerging with in and around one.
This is how it feels and sensed by me when I can move myself out of the way for a moment and simply be in that space.

This is what you become conscious of.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Is this being aware of all existance? Would say for me no. For me being aware of that creative force flowing through life.

The jury is still out on that one and it depends on your beliefs. Some would say that there is nothing beyond your consciousness, and science says that you create your conscious reality within the boundaries of your perceptions. Perception is reality.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Yes, speaking about God can expand what God is to me and become aware of what it is for others. These are just thoughts, descriptions and not necessarily fully what God is. Whether for me, you, or anyone else, IMO.

We put a handle on God so that the human mind can grasp the intangible, and everything we say about God has been created by the human mind's attempt to rationalise and make sense of what it can't make sense of. Perhaps God is a collective term for what is beyond out capacity to become conscious of.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

I can become aware of that which I did not know I know and through this my consciousness may expand. What I am unaware of, may remain that way, for it may not be needed or brought to my attention. It may remain in existance as it is being and therefore within the overall consciousness of life being, God/consciousness being.

It not so much a paradox, unless one may wish to have it one way or another. When it, as been presented before, this and that forming ones own perspectives, seems to bring a more balanced view in some ways.

Yes, would say it is not so much about thinking what God may be as much as becoming aware of what is brought into ones life and going from there. "God" being used for discussion sake. Atleast for me at the moment.

These are my thoughts upon this at this moment.

Your consciousness expanding is an artifact of the mind, are you not conscious that the consciousness doesn't expand? Even when you become conscious that you are now conscious of what you weren't conscious of before, you're also conscious that your consciousness has never really changed or expanded. You were always conscious of it and there was never a time when you were not conscious of it.

So perhaps God is what your mind thinks that your consciousness is not conscious of. Oh, put cotton wool in your ears before your brain starts leaking.

[davidsun]

Great post GS!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Conscious is fundamental, which means that's where it all 'begins' from a kinda linear understanding. So you are consciousness first and foremost, then you become human, take form etc....

... Your consciousness expanding is an artifact of the mind, are you not conscious that the consciousness doesn't expand? Even when you become conscious that you are now conscious of what you weren't conscious of before, you're also conscious that your consciousness has never really changed or expanded. You were always conscious of it and there was never a time when you were not conscious of it.

Etc.

I think THAT is exactly what the author of The Bhagavad Gita told Arjuna about (except he referenced IT as 'Spirit') in passage such as:

That which is not, shall never be; that which is, shall never cease to be. To the wise, these truths are self-evident.

The Spirit, which pervades all that we see, is imperishable. Nothing can destroy the Spirit.

The material bodies which this Eternal, Indestructible, Immeasurable Spirit inhabits are all finite. Therefore fight, O Valiant Man!

He who thinks that the Spirit kills, and he who thinks of It as killed, are both ignorant. The Spirit kills not, nor is It killed.

It was not born; It will never die, nor once having been, can It cease to be. Unborn, Eternal, Ever-enduring, yet Most Ancient, the Spirit dies not when the body is dead.

He who knows the Spirit as Indestructible, Immortal, Unborn, Always-the-Same, how should he kill or cause to be killed?

As a man discards his threadbare robes and puts on new, so the Spirit throws off Its worn-out bodies and takes fresh ones.

Weapons cleave It not, fire burns It not, water drenches It not, and wind dries It not.

It is impenetrable; It can be neither drowned nor scorched nor dried. It is Eternal, All-pervading, Unchanging, Immovable and Most Ancient.

It is named the Unmanifest, the Unthinkable, the immutable. Wherefore, knowing the Spirit as such, thou hast no cause to grieve.

Even if thou thinkest of It as constantly being born, constantly dying, even then, O Mighty Man, thou still hast no cause to grieve.

I think that the Ever the Same, Unchanging aspect of IT is meant to appeal to those who are 'troubled' by change, those who emotionally' 'quake' at the thought/ realization that everything, including what the think and experienee as their 'selves', changes and that nothing ever remains the same - evolution/change is the 'order' (in all the words many meanings) of Life, i.e. of Creation.

IOW, Being (whether 'yours', 'others' or of All-That-Is a/k/a God's ) is both ever-changing, i.e. ever-Becoming and 'eternally ever-the-same . Most people chose to regard IT as being one or the other because they can't 'handle' dealing with seemingly 'opposing' aspects of the TRUTH at the same time. Focusing on Life's (God's?) evolutionary aspect, Heraclitis stated: “No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man!"

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm not challenging what you're saying, but I am saying there is more to it.

Ditto in relation to your post, GS.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So the question is ... how does a seed know to become what it will? Sure there is genetics involved, but could this be also a form of consciousness?

Yes, to the 'question'. I submit that 'consciousness' alone cannot be the 'answer'. Why, because consciousness's function is just 'peception'. It has no no motive-ation other than to 'perceive' and 'be' and 'do' what it eternally 'is' and 'does'.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's the $64,000 question. Is God conscious of what we are conscious of, and as such do we then create God and not the other way around? What happens when there is nothing but consciousness to become conscious of?

IMO, the 'answer' to this 'question' becomes available only if and as one 'sees' that there is more to Life (a/k/a 'God') than 'mere' consciousness.

One has to ask one's self and postulate and explore what Life's also eternally-present Essence-ial living-motive may be.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's not a brainteaser when you are conscious of.... There are no movements, there is no relationship between consciousness in this moment and consciousness after you become conscious of something. There are no connections because there is nothing to connect to anything else - there is just consciousness, all on its lonesome.

Not so, Bro. There is a 'relationship', i.e. a meaningful 'connection', between the psychospiritual gestalt of 'the child', 'the adult' and 'the wizard/crone' for example. The direction, hence motive or purpose, of 'evolution' can be de-ciphered.

At least, I think/feel/n/believe I have de-ciphered IT.

My logical (I think) speculations in said regard have led me to conclude that you continue to embrace living 'in' the vacuous 'emptiness' of "There are no connections because there is nothing to connect to anything else - there is just consciousness, all on its lonesome" because acknowledging the truth I speak of 'threatens' to 'topple' the 'stronghold' of your unchanging Greenslading . I say it is a choice, because you are 'intelligent' enough (IMO) to 'see' and 'grasp the significance' of what I am talking. Therefore no 'excuse' applies.