Mark of the Beast

Someone said that there is no problem with using the beast and the ego, if we keep the right perspective or something like that. It was in relation to me suggesting that the mark of the beast represents money and mans love and trust in it.

I just don't understand the need to hold on to, and make excuses for using the beast/ego, when it's clear both are spiritually detrimental.

It's a bit like people who argue that they can use grandiose titles. They say that they are not attached to the title, and that having the title is a spiritual test to NOT be attached to it, but if they really were spiritual and not attached, wouldn't they just forsake the title? Like Jesus taught?

A similar thing can be said with possessions and money.

The mark of the beast is something literal that is coming very soon, and people really need to be weighing up the seriousness of their dependence on, and faith in, money and all it can buy to fulfill their needs. The Revelation gives some very serious warnings to those who think that taking the mark won't be a big deal.

People may disagree with what it says, but that doesn't make it any less real. Which leads to my final thought....

I hear people say repeatedly things like, ''well, my God....'' or ''I can't believe in a God who....''. While our understanding of God is limited, it should not stop us from seeking to know the truth and be willing to hear that our opinions of who we THINK God is to be wrong. Everyone has some knowledge of who God is, but can we try and seek a God and a truth who/that is bigger than our imaginations/experiences/biases/prejudices, and opinions?

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

I hear people say repeatedly things like, ''well, my God....'' or ''I can't believe in a God who....''. While our understanding of God is limited, it should not stop us from seeking to know the truth and be willing to hear that our opinions of who we THINK God is to be wrong. Everyone has some knowledge of who God is, but can we try and seek a God and a truth who/that is bigger than our imaginations/experiences/biases/prejudices, and opinions?

If God is indeed the cruel God of the old testament or the punishing force of the new, who casts all unbelievers into hell for all eternity then I am bound for hell. But, in my own quest for the truth I have come to the conclusion that He is neither of these things. God is love.

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

If God is indeed the cruel God of the old testament or the punishing force of the new, who casts all unbelievers into hell for all eternity then I am bound for hell. But, in my own quest for the truth I have come to the conclusion that He is neither of these things. God is love.

Again, I am not saying that God is all of the things that you believe he isn't. And just so we are on the same page, I also believe that 'God is Love'. However, I also understand that because I am imperfect and my knowledge is finite, that my understanding of what 'love' IS, is probably NOT the full picture.

I also don't believe God is cruel, nor just a punishing force. However, my faith in God also allows for my lack of understanding of who he truly is. It may seem cruel in our eyes for God to punish people, but maybe that's because we aren't seeing the full picture, maybe the punishment is PART of his love? There is just so much in what Jesus spoke about, what the disciples wrote, and the Revelation says that alludes to God being so much more than what we conclude he is, that I just think it pays to be humble in our understanding of who he is. Sending your own son to die a torturous painful death, doesn't seem very loving does it, yet we know that it is. God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (though in the end God stopped him), seems barbarous to our 'modern minds', yet here was love. If we aren't willing to let go of the very things that we love for God, then we won't be truly free to love God or those we claim to love.

Yes, God is love, but that doesn't mean there aren't conditions or requirements to that love, or indeed consequences that we will receive if we choose not to submit to him.

Just read the gospels and see what Jesus says about all of this.

We either accept that our understanding of God and his love is limited as pray for greater wisdom in understanding Him and his Love, or we will fit God into our own limited and biased understanding of what love is.

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

Again, I am not saying that God is all of the things that you believe he isn't. And just so we are on the same page, I also believe that 'God is Love'. However, I also understand that because I am imperfect and my knowledge is finite, that my understanding of what 'love' IS, is probably NOT the full picture.

I also don't believe God is cruel, nor just a punishing force. However, my faith in God also allows for my lack of understanding of who he truly is. It may seem cruel in our eyes for God to punish people, but maybe that's because we aren't seeing the full picture, maybe the punishment is PART of his love? There is just so much in what Jesus spoke about, what the disciples wrote, and the Revelation says that alludes to God being so much more than what we conclude he is, that I just think it pays to be humble in our understanding of who he is. Sending your own son to die a torturous painful death, doesn't seem very loving does it, yet we know that it is. God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (though in the end God stopped him), seems barbarous to our 'modern minds', yet here was love. If we aren't willing to let go of the very things that we love for God, then we won't be truly free to love God or those we claim to love.

Yes, God is love, but that doesn't mean there aren't conditions or requirements to that love, or indeed consequences that we will receive if we choose not to submit to him.

Just read the gospels and see what Jesus says about all of this.

We either accept that our understanding of God and his love is limited as pray for greater wisdom in understanding Him and his Love, or we will fit God into our own limited and biased understanding of what love is.

The story of Abraham and Isaac is ridiculous. Can you imagine a modern man attempting to kill his son and saying God told him to? The man would be locked away as a psychopath. Also, if God wants us to kill anyone then He is not worthy of my praise. I do not worship those who cause the death of innocents (or guilty souls for that matter).

As for Jesus being God's son; we are all God's children, Jesus was perhaps more enlightened than most of us, but not special in any other way. Many of the early Christians did not believe the stories of the virgin birth or the resurrection. These tales were added much later by converts and accounts which did not mention them were renounced as heresy: not by Jesus, but by the church.

The stories of souls being punished are not the words of God, but the words of men.