Studying alone

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

When ego says so.
When the mindfulness is infected by ego, the mindfulness isn't a truly mindfulness anymore. it's a illusion and it can become illusion in a illusion, and one of the result is piti(pleasure and comfort).

Knowledge/understanding +1; ego +1 or more.

A teacher would tell you the point in which you don't need a teacher is when the ego is gone.

When one is able to reside in Rigpa all the time.

Mindfulness is not the end state. You still have a subject and an object. You and your thoughts, you and your feelings. There is still a subject and an object. There is still much, much more beyond that point.

Mindfulness is a trap. People often think they have arrived. Combine that with an open 3rd eye and the ability to travel like so many report here and with no teacher... Very hard to get past if you don't trust anyone. Especially if the only being you trust is your spirit guide which is just an aspect of yourself.

All the travel stuff is still a subject and an object. It is a trap which is why no tradition teaches it.

Beyond mindfulness is emptiness, even after achieving that I have found a teacher is still necessary.. at least for me

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Ya ego! In my current state of consciousness my answer is:

When is the point in which you don't need a teacher?
When you know what to do.

Nothing more to say than that. Getting into thinking pulls you down into the conceptual world. I can see why Buddha and Jesus never wrote anything down. Writing an answer/thinking pulls you into the mental/ego world.

That was because they didn't have paper like we do now. Everything was done as it had been for thousands of years.. orally.

That is one scary statement. "When you know what to do"

How do you know what to do each step of the way. Once you turn a new corner to a greater experience how do you know what to do then? What technique you should do to progress you along the way. How to do that new technique?

Here is an excellent example of a person who thinks he has realized the natural state and is practicing trecho from a book. For years and years he was steadfast in the fact he had achieved both. He laugh's at the idea of a teacher and thinks all you need is a good book.

Years later he has realized he hasn't achieved it, but still thinks books are the way to go. Sad.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/3791...ion/?hl=trecho

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A teacher would tell you the point in which you don't need a teacher is when the ego is gone.

When one is able to reside in Rigpa all the time.

Mindfulness is not the end state. You still have a subject and an object. You and your thoughts, you and your feelings. There is still a subject and an object. There is still much, much more beyond that point.

Mindfulness is a trap. People often think they have arrived. Combine that with an open 3rd eye and the ability to travel like so many report here and with no teacher... Very hard to get past if you don't trust anyone. Especially if the only being you trust is your spirit guide which is just an aspect of yourself.

All the travel stuff is still a subject and an object. It is a trap which is why no tradition teaches it.

Beyond mindfulness is emptiness, even after achieving that I have found a teacher is still necessary.. at least for me

Yap, usually it happens when we surpass our teacher or teacher will advising us to another 'higher level' teacher.
Once he/she becomes our teacher, forever he/she will be our teacher

Yap, it's better to keep third eye closed when our panna is still low.

Beyond mindfulness, I prefer not to discuss it or talk about it. It's beyond words

Btw, I believed I saw your photo profile before. Do you join zen group in Facebook?

[RyanWind]

You pass by a hungry child asking for food. A person asks you for help driving them to the airport. Somebody asks you to help out with the dishes. In a traffic jam, somebody wants to cut into your lane in front of you. You don't really need a book or a teacher to do the unselfish and right thing.

You get a calm and peaceful mind by letting go of trying to control things you can't control, by surrendering to what is, by being humble and grateful for what you do have. You don't need a book or a teacher to surrender to a higher power or to be a kind, loving, giving person.

Wanting to be spiritual.... how do you know that's not your ego? Seems like it can be pretty self centered and egotistical to me. But yea... wanting to be spiritual... to me that means living up to your true potential as a human being. Getting rid of the stuff that makes you unkind, unloving, angry, self-centered, puffed up, self important, mean, etc

That's the thing.... WHY.... why are you doing what you are doing and what exactly are you doing?

So many people trying to be spiritual are really making their ego's bigger. Or they are egotistically seeking spiritual/mystical experiences which is no different than taking drugs for a high. Everything is about them and their experience. It's like that story of the guy who is meditating who is internally angry at the people in the room who keep coughing or whatever. That guy is meditating for ego.

Karma is really the biggest teacher. You get back what you create. Create love and kindness and serenity and that's what will come back to you.

What is interesting is we need a book or a teacher to become a better or kind or spiritual person. How low are we in our development that we need somebody else to tell us what is right and good?

Somebody knowing what to do is not scary. It's the opposite. It's the people who don't know what to do that are scary. People who are dependent on others to know right from wrong.

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

You pass by a hungry child asking for food. A person asks you for help driving them to the airport. Somebody asks you to help out with the dishes. In a traffic jam, somebody wants to cut into your lane in front of you. You don't really need a book or a teacher to do the unselfish and right thing.

You get a calm and peaceful mind by letting go of trying to control things you can't control, by surrendering to what is, by being humble and grateful for what you do have. You don't need a book or a teaciher to surrender to a higher power or to be a kind, loving, giving person.

Wanting to be spiritual.... how do you know that's not your ego? Seems like it can be pretty self centered and egotistical to me. But yea... wanting to be spiritual... to me that means living up to your true potential as a human being. Getting rid of the stuff that makes you unkind, unloving, angry, self-centered, puffed up, self important, mean, etc

That's the thing.... WHY.... why are you doing what you are doing and what exactly are you doing?

So many people trying to be spiritual are really making their ego's bigger. Or they are egotistically seeking spiritual/mystical experiences which is no different than taking drugs for a high. Everything is about them and their experience. It's like that story of the guy who is meditating who is internally angry at the people in the room who keep coughing or whatever. That guy is meditating for ego.

Karma is really the biggest teacher. You get back what you create. Create love and kindness and serenity and that's what will come back to you.

What is interesting is we need a book or a teacher to become a better or kind or spiritual person. How low are we in our development that we need somebody else to tell us what is right and good?

Somebody knowing what to do is not scary. It's the opposite. It's the people who don't know what to do that are scary. People who are dependent on others to know right from wrong.

Good advice RW, as always..

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

Yap, usually it happens when we surpass our teacher or teacher will advising us to another 'higher level' teacher.
Once he/she becomes our teacher, forever he/she will be our teacher

Yap, it's better to keep third eye closed when our panna is still low.

Beyond mindfulness, I prefer not to discuss it or talk about it. It's beyond words

Btw, I believed I saw your photo profile before. Do you join zen group in Facebook?

I don't think I am part of a Facebook Zen group. I do hangout at The Dao Bums and at my own site with my friends at Living Unbound.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

You pass by a hungry child asking for food. A person asks you for help driving them to the airport. Somebody asks you to help out with the dishes. In a traffic jam, somebody wants to cut into your lane in front of you. You don't really need a book or a teacher to do the unselfish and right thing.

You get a calm and peaceful mind by letting go of trying to control things you can't control, by surrendering to what is, by being humble and grateful for what you do have. You don't need a book or a teacher to surrender to a higher power or to be a kind, loving, giving person.

Wanting to be spiritual.... how do you know that's not your ego? Seems like it can be pretty self centered and egotistical to me. But yea... wanting to be spiritual... to me that means living up to your true potential as a human being. Getting rid of the stuff that makes you unkind, unloving, angry, self-centered, puffed up, self important, mean, etc

That's the thing.... WHY.... why are you doing what you are doing and what exactly are you doing?

So many people trying to be spiritual are really making their ego's bigger. Or they are egotistically seeking spiritual/mystical experiences which is no different than taking drugs for a high. Everything is about them and their experience. It's like that story of the guy who is meditating who is internally angry at the people in the room who keep coughing or whatever. That guy is meditating for ego.

Karma is really the biggest teacher. You get back what you create. Create love and kindness and serenity and that's what will come back to you.

What is interesting is we need a book or a teacher to become a better or kind or spiritual person. How low are we in our development that we need somebody else to tell us what is right and good?

Somebody knowing what to do is not scary. It's the opposite. It's the people who don't know what to do that are scary. People who are dependent on others to know right from wrong.

Hi Ryan,

Letting go is a very powerful method. The trick is learning how to let go, learning how to love unconditionally. I sure needed help with all that, a lot of help.

What else, anything beyond that, that you could do?

Your talk about people being spiritual is your projection onto others. I have never thought people do this stuff for ego. Yes people may start for an experience but they continue because of how it improves the quality of ones life!

You mentioned that you don't need a book or teacher but you you are missing so much! Teachers are not there to tell you right from wrong but to help speed you along the path.

Maybe it is your ego that is keeping you from wanting to learn from someone?

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Maybe it is your ego that is keeping you from wanting to learn from someone?

Yes! The ego spouts opinions all day long. From the time we wake up to the time we fall asleep. It's the non-stop talking in our minds. Proclaiming, "I don't need a teacher!" is the same thing as proclaiming "We all need a teacher!"

In this moment, the point is not which thought is correct. The point is can you experience now without the influence of thought? Without being sucked into whatever concept and reality it is dangling in front of your consciousness?

It can only be found now.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi Ryan,

Letting go is a very powerful method.

What else, anything beyond that, that you could do?

Let go of thoughts that tell you that you need to do something.

"Sometimes I sit and I think. Sometimes I just sit."

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Yes! The ego spouts opinions all day long. From the time we wake up to the time we fall asleep. It's the non-stop talking in our minds. Proclaiming, "I don't need a teacher!" is the same thing as proclaiming "We all need a teacher!"

In this moment, the point is not which thought is correct. The point is can you experience now without the influence of thought? Without being sucked into whatever concept and reality it is dangling in front of your consciousness?

It can only be found now.

Hi Ryan,

I don't think it is anywhere near the same thing to let go and trust a teacher as it is to say I don't need anyone or anything. Much different.

A big part of working with a guru is surrendering, as in complete trust. That is a letting go of ego. I hope you see the difference.

Can you sit without thought? Nice words but very rare to achieve and a disservice to make people think it is something so easy to do. To reside in the void is also considered a trap btw .

So how do you get to the point of being in the now, thoughts as energy, emptiness and residing as the flow of that which is?

How do you avoid the mistake of thinking a silent mind is the end result?

Please give me some details. If it by letting go how do you do it? What is your technique?