Is Goodness Pride?

[Fizwold]

[quote=Honza]

Enlightenment implies that one is happy with everything - both good and bad. So while one person is suffering, another person is enjoying it.

/QUOTE]


Let us say there is someone who has had a very , very dark past, not to say they indulged in , for the sake of ease , evil acts but suffered from them greatly their entire life but views everything in the end fine and worth that, that the bad never outweighed the evil. What do you make of such a person?

[Honza]

A bit lost. If I committed evil acts I would try to feel remorse. To apologise.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Honza

Neutrality can be important. totally unaffected by badness complete equanimity no merit ascribed to goodness. It just becomes an equal part of the whole.

Because people generally assess good and evil by how they feel rather than the real motive behind their activity, there's no requirement for the truth. If we assess goodness by our own nature of volition, we are required to be deeply truthful about what our own motives really are. For example, a person may regard themselves as good because they feel compassion and are devoted to helping others, but they are actually motivated by a strong desire for other's gratitude and are just trying to elicit that from others.

Motives come from two places. The first place is where ill-will (evil) comes from, and that motive is perpetuated by adverse and craven reactions, which the larger portion of people are driven by. The second place is where good-will comes from, which is the outpouring of love that is endemic of our own nature and fundamental to nature herself. The outpouring doesn't exert any will on anything, but sees all things with the utmost purity of love. As that pours through a human being it expresses in all aspects of their lives. Hence all merit pertains to good-will, and none applies to ill-will.

It's deeper than will applied to what people want. Rather than pertaining to what is desirable or undesirable, goodness pertains to what is true. This is the cornerstone of morality of truthfulness, honesty and trust, which is foundational to a spiritual path.

In contrast, evil pertains to what is delusional. It's not evil in terms of judgment or punishment. It's evil in terms of suffering being caused by volitions perpetuated by craving and aversion that arise due to delusion. Hence, Christ says, 'Forgive them for they know not what they do,' and Even while being tortured feelings don't elicit the adverse, hateful reactions that cause ill-will (evil) in Him. He's a channel through which the love of nature flows. We all are, but we have by and large lost sight of it, and there's a lot of obstuctions that clog up the channel.

On the ego level we are affected by everything, but fundamentally we're indestructible, immovable and nothing can affect us, but that's not dead-pan and inanimate. It's alive with the infinite outpouring of pure love which regards all things equally in that way.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

A bit lost. If I committed evil acts I would try to feel remorse. To apologise.

Only if you see your 'evil' act's as being 'evil'....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Honza

For example, if you believe there is no good or evil then what is the feeling or notion of such? It is explained as 'ego' or 'pride' or incomplete realisation etc.

I don't think there is much depth to those who state those views like goodness is pride. Like if someone said, "there is no right or wrong," that in itself is a statement of being right lol. But I think it's hard to find the truth maybe, or "see it" that all words are concepts, pointers, and not what they are attempting to point towards. Also one can debate the whole thing, come to conclusions, make statements of fact etc all within the conceptual mind. And the conceptual is never the actual. It's just a mental creation. I sometimes think of it like a closed box. Inside the box anything can be true because everything in the box is imaginary and word based.

[Maisy]

I'm not sure using the word "evil" is appropriate for my ideas as there is a whole range of possible actions stemming from the given which is the nature of the human body and it's brain and mind. But in religion and philosophy the idea of the good or pure soul is added that dwells temporary in a human body and brain. So to me, and I think this is a common view among some biblical writers like John ect and some Christian theologians, but the general idea is the body is "prone to sin" or work from a selfish and self centered way and the soul generally is more universal and all inclusive in it's view. So there is a struggle "in us" between the two natures we are imbued with during an earthly life.

It's pretty basic at it's core I think. Willful actions that harm others for our own pleasure are bad and willful actions that take in the well being of others as important as well as other outcomes is good. Like companies that dump toxic waste into ground water others will depend on to drink. They are not considering others as equals in their actions.

Evil will always exist in the absence of conscience. Why were the 10 Commandments given ? Why were they written in stone ? To me it indicates that early man was without conscience. Perhaps that situation was remedied by God with the new covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34. Verse 33 says …”I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts…”. Symbolically I have understood this as the formal birth of conscience. It is worthwhile to examine the etymology of conscience……con=with…science=knowledge(truth )…..”know the truth and the truth shall set you free”…..that freedom can be the freedom from the necessity of the written law…..good and evil will be obvious…..

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Evil will always exist in the absence of conscience.

Our conscience is the inner sense of what is right or wrong and is in constant flux....

[sky]

"Little evil would be done in the world if evil never could be done in the name of good." ~ Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach....

Originally Posted by sky

Our conscience is the inner sense of what is right or wrong and is in constant flux....

Actually the thing that is in constant flux is the ego….this is the two mindedness that the Bible speaks of…..