The meaning of the crucifixion

[Dan_SF]

Dan,

Continuous happiness or continuous misery leads to boredom of human being or a soul.

Hi Again,

I have a bit different view of this.

Human beings do have so called Soul and Mind (actually, it all belongs to the Soul first - but it is another story).

While Mind can be changed, the Soul is unchangeable (and so always in the state of Grace).

And mind, which believes in time is never happy. It has learned to cast happiness in future, and when it gets there instead of being happy, it jumps off again, and again and again.

You have had experiences of this (in any way), so you can relate to it. (if you haven't, then you'r lucky - congratulations)

Children's do not experience the reality in that way, and so they are happy when they are happy. They simply enjoy the being. (unless something disturbs them, but that is another story).

So it must be that the ape-mind (called ape-mind, because it values distraction, jumping from one thing to the other) takes over, while the Growth, until the Person learns that it is not healthy way of thinking/living.

Thanks for reading.

[kisalipa]

Knowing and Managing the Mind
You must know the nature of intelligence and also the nature of the mind in order to control the mind. Although intelligence is the higher faculty, it cannot control the mind simply by passing on orders in the form of decisions. The mind yields to the decision of intelligence immediately but gradually, the mind proposes alternatives (Vikalpa) and controls the intelligence by diverting it into the alternative way. The mind is like the tactful wife, who yields to the decision of the husband on the spot, but in course of time gradually diverts him to follow her will, through sweet proposals. To capture this tactful mind, you must learn the same talent of the mind. Krishna transformed Satyabhama gradually by not behaving like her husband but by behaving like a wife to her. You can cut a diamond only by another diamond and you can remove a thorn only by another thorn. To teach this spiritual concept of intelligence and the mind, God created man and woman with such different natures, to represent the intelligence and the mind respectively.

When this concept is understood, both men and women should take the concept equally and get spiritual benefit. There is no difference between a man and a woman in their three bodies. The gross body is made of five elements, the inner subtle body is made of three qualities and the innermost causal body is made of pure awareness in both the cases. Only the compositions (proportions) of the three qualities vary in both the cases to suit the above concept. Thus, the firm intelligence and the inconsistent mind are represented by the man and the woman respectively. Here both are equal as actors, but there is a difference in the external assigned roles. One actor need not criticize the other actor for his or her external role. Thus, the man need not criticize the inconsistent nature of the woman, which is only a role given by God. The man should also learn the submissiveness of the woman, which is also an external role and which is necessary for attaining the grace of God. The Veda says that the five parts (Koshas) starting from the gross body, made of food (Annam), are Brahman. If you apply these five parts in the case of an ordinary human being, the word Brahman stands for the greatest item in a category. The Sanskrit Dictionary (Amarakosha) allows this alternative meaning, which is derived from its root word. The Gita also gives an example for such an alternative usage when it uses Brahman to mean the Veda, which is the greatest among scriptures (Brahmaakshara...). If you take the word Brahman in the sense of God, then those Vedic statements pertain to the case of the human incarnation and not to the case of an ordinary human being. It means that each of the five parts has become God just like the live wire is treated as electric current in every part internally and externally (Antarbahishcha…—Veda). You cannot take the case of an ordinary human being and use the word Brahman in the sense of God, and say that every human being is God. Even if you did that, you cannot say that awareness alone is God because even the gross body is said to be God in the Veda in the context of Pancha Koshas. Advaita, which restricts only to pure awareness (soul or causal body) as God cannot fit itself even in this line of misinterpretation.

[Miss Hepburn]

What a varied array of opinions or takes on Jesus and the crucifixion!
I believe I am staying out of this one!

Btw, who is the Swami, Swami who?
If it was already answered I missed it, sorry....I think I asked a while ago and forgot...
but I think his name should be apparent if he is being quoted by copy/paste.

kisalipa...it is too hard for me to read the tight blocking of your sentences, sorry...I gave up.

And why is this in the Christian section instead of the Hindu?

I'm not a trouble maker, really...but it sure seems it today!

[kisalipa]

Hello Hepburm,

Swami here is what we believe to be a Human Incarnation. His mission is to preach universal spirituality for World Peace and to remove rigid and wrong misinterpretations among all the religions, since there is only 1 God who is common to all religions and scriptures.

For more details, please feel free to visit - www.universal-spirituality.org

[Baile]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

It is told in the Bible that He came to save His people. The word 'His people' mean the devotees, who can get the reformation by the crucifixion and the spiritual knowledge of Jesus. He did not come to save all the people.

Very nice. Yes, one can only be "saved" (transcend the ego) via their own hard-won self-realization inner work. That indeed was Jesus' message, a message directed to all, but one that could only be taken up by those awake enough to understand.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Baile

Very nice. Yes, one can only be "saved" (transcend the ego) via their own hard-won self-realization inner work. That indeed was Jesus' message, a message directed to all, but one that could only be taken up by those awake enough to understand.

and yet... there were also the passages about the grace of god and not needing to 'do' anything or maybe not even being able to... along with the passage in revelation to one of the churches that basically said 'all you have to do is hang on to what you've got until I come by again... nothing else is required of you'

all the one sided preaching we are all doing isn't helping anything except our own egos.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

and yet... there were also the passages about the grace of god and not needing to 'do' anything or maybe not even being able to... along with the passage in revelation to one of the churches that basically said 'all you have to do is hang on to what you've got until I come by again... nothing else is required of you

Of course, and many people take these passages literally. People who intrepret the Bible literally also think Noah was a real and actual person, who built an actual boat and stuffed it full of real animals. Whereas the Bible is a metaphorical treatise; interpreting it is an esoteric exercise. It is relating, not lower physical-material happenings, but quantum truths pertaining to spirit and the mysteries of existence that can be understood on a higher soul level. For example: from a linear time perspective, it would appear the world needs saving (to use the church-specific description of what is really an inner and individual soul revelation). From a space perspective however, where time does not exist, and where past, present and future unite together in eternal oneness, it is already done and accomplished, and therefore requires nothing else.

Whether or not Jesus existed and the crucifixion happened, makes no difference. Just as believing the story or not makes no difference. The story has been communicated; has been told already. It is done and cannot be undone, and so nothing else is required. It's singular purpose rather is to communicate and reveal metaphysical truths to all souls open to hearing those truths. That the church turned it into a "real and actual" tale of a Disneyesque savior from heaven is something else entirely, and is entirely irrelevant. It stands on its own regardless as an occult, mystery-wisdom anecdote and narrative, one pertaining to humanity's individual and collective soul-spirit evolution.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

all the one sided preaching we are all doing isn't helping anything except our own egos.

Here's the truth about that comment, and it happens all the time in forums: People are having a conversation, each addressing the topic at hand as they understand it, until one person who apparently doesn't like what he's reading, asserts his ego and preaches to everyone, telling others they're preaching from their egos.

[markings]

The people of the time were still a bit thick. Their ability to think in abstract terms was not yet well developed. They worked with real stuff which they could see, hear and touch.

Jesus showed them by physical example what they have to do with their self or ego. To allow it to get killed, with no resistance, so that after a very short period something new may arise from the grave where the ego was put.
This process should happen around age 20 to 30 nowadays. That is when we have learned everything the ego could teach us. Jesus said before his death "my work is done, everything my father has given me to do I have done." (or similar)

The crucifixion is therefore a quite unimportant thing and serves as an example what should happen when nothing more is to be learned.

[Baile]

Jesus showed them what they have to do with their self or ego [Yes.]

To allow it to get killed [Yes... but in truth, get the ego under one's control, rather than get killed per se.]

so that after a very short period something new may arise from the grave where the ego was put [So very yes, you understand the esoteric symbolism of the story.]

This process should happen around age 20 to 30 nowadays [Not really. Typically happens in one's 40's and 50's. People generally don't have a handle on their true self (the ego-under-control self) until then; haven't had enough life experience.]

[markings]

Originally Posted by Baile

To allow it to get killed [Yes... but in truth, get the ego under one's control, rather than get killed per se.]

Who, or what, would be the great controller of the ego?