finding out what love is

[happy soul]

According to Socrates, Plato, and J. Krishnamurti, what's necessary is the apprehension of virtue, or to put it another way, knowing what love is.

They believed that if we really knew what love and virtue are, we would naturally and automatically CHOOSE them. Socrates said, 'To know the good is to do the good,' and Krishnamurti said, 'The seeing is the doing.'

Kant on the other hand thought that we ALREADY know what's right, but that most people just don't follow through and consistently choose the good.

Jesus seemed to believe the former of these, as he said on the cross, 'Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.'

And of course, much of Jesus's teaching was centered on clarifying what love is, and what the will of God is. The sermon on the mount in Matthew chapter 5 is where his main teachings about love and virtue are.

I believe that 'everyone always does their best' and that we always make the choices that we think or believe are the right choices. So I agree that what we (btw I'm including myself in this - I definitely stand great room for improvement in my apprehension of love) need is to really know what love is - to 'find out what love is', as Krishnamurti often put it.

An example of this is when I attended a cookout party at a lake for the black belts at my Tae Kwon Do school. The main Tae Kwon Do instructor threatened to give his 3 year old son a 'whoopin' because the kid was being rambunctious. The guy was 6 foot 4, probably 250 pounds of mostly muscle (of course even if he was much physically weaker it wouldn't really matter as any adult would be far stronger than a 3 year old), and I can only imagine the hell the poor kid went through getting 'whoopins' from his dad.

My point is that the man thought, he BELIEVED, he was doing the right thing by spanking his child. Imo he was definitely mistaken. But if the man really 'knew what love is', if he KNEW the right thing to do, he would have done it.

Krishnamurti asked, 'Can you put your whole being into finding out what love is?'

Can we see and admit to ourselves that we DON'T KNOW, and then take Krishnamurti's advice and devote ourselves to 'remembering', to really 'seeing the light' and finding out what love is?

HOW can we do this? I don't know, but I believe we have to really have the desire to, and make an effort. It may mean facing our fear. It may mean admitting we've been wrong. It may take courage, but it's surely worth it.

It's your life. Love yourself enough to be utterly honest with yourself. Be the best you can be. You're worth it and it matters.

[Dargor]

Love is an illusion. A waste of time.

[happy soul]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Love is an illusion. A waste of time.

Then maybe for you, the word 'love' is not the right word. It's definitely a loaded word and often misused.

Do you believe 'compassion' exists? The word compassion is often used in Buddhism, whereas love is used in Christianity.

You probably believe one can be kind, and that one can be mean.

So it's largely just a matter of defining words.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by happy soul

Then maybe for you, the word 'love' is not the right word. It's definitely a loaded word and often misused.

Do you believe 'compassion' exists? The word compassion is often used in Buddhism, whereas love is used in Christianity.

You probably believe one can be kind, and that one can be mean.

So it's largely just a matter of defining words.

I do believe in compassion, even though most compassion shown by others is fake and deceitful. I also strongly believe in respect. But I really hate the word 'love'.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I do believe in compassion, even though most compassion shown by others is fake and deceitful. I also strongly believe in respect. But I really hate the word 'love'.

Why that particular attachment to the word? Is that based on words or actions or usage and misuse by others? I mean no offense, but I notice your dislike and am curious as to why that exists. It IS just a word, a mental creation that we use to communicate, and being such the definitions, interpretations and meanings are wide open and ever changing.

Some don't much like that but it isn't a thing of my creation, people just tend to do it over time, pretty much everywhere, whether right or wrong interpretations and use change over time and often become something completely different than what it began as.

Of course, you are free to your own opinions and all, so I am not trying to change them or to persuade you in any way, just asking why.

In my own experience, there are a great many words that we use that are, in my opinion, aspects of love. Having said that I must also say that this list is not complete and I find others to add to it sometimes. For example, patience, humility, understanding, compassion, detachment, tolerance, non-interference, gratitude, and forgiveness are but a few. And of course this is only my own point of view, so no one is bound to agree with me, least of all you, I only threw my two cents in and asked a question because I was curious.

In my opinion, many of the meanings and uses of the word love do indeed fall short, and humans do little better in their attempt to display their understanding of it at any given moment, but just the same, I cannot necessarily say that any of these limitations that we humans have have anything to do with the concept of love, whatever it truly is in its truest form.

I personally do not believe it to be an illusion, and would instead make the distinction that WE create the illusions ourselves and place those on the word and the concept more than it being an illusion in and of itself. To me, the reality of love is beyond the constraints of a simple word, emotion, or mental concept, and even beyond duality, time, and space. Not easily defined but sometimes able to be recognized to some extent or another, although those are highly changeable too.

Just a few thoughts on the subject of love, whatever it truly is. And a Sufi quote at the end, that to me paints a good picture of the way that I see love's status as a thing that is just a wee bit beyond where a person is looking at it from. For it to be real, it would have to be alive, and able to grow and develop as any other living things would, although perhaps in ways no one expected or foresaw.

" A life without love is of no account. Don't ask yourself what kind of love you should seek, spiritual or material, Divine or mundane, Eastern or Western. Divisions only lead to more divisions. Love has no labels, no definitions. It is what it is, pure and simple. Love is the water of life. And a lover is a Soul of fire! The universe turns differently when fire loves water. "
- Shams-i Tabrizi

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Love is an illusion. A waste of time.

So you have said more than once before, if I remember correctly.
Yet without it you would not exist. And not just in the physical form in any form.
The energy called love is the vehicle for creation.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

So you have said more than once before, if I remember correctly.
Yet without it you would not exist. And not just in the physical form in any form.
The energy called love is the vehicle for creation.

I understand that this is your perception and there's nothing wrong with that if it motivates you positively. Perhaps it could be the truth in your case, but for me I simply exist because two people decided to have children and did you-know-what. Nothing more. I never asked to be born and I have no idea what this world wants from me, but I certainly don't feel like I belong here.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Love is an illusion. A waste of time.

if someone told you, you cannot listen to heavy metal anymore. Would you fight for it? Would you defend it? That's love.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Love is an illusion. A waste of time.

I agree, love is a over used word, just like the words, I am sorry. But if someone told you, you couldn't listen heavy metal ever again, would you fight for it,? Would you defend it with all your heart? If you would, that's love. If you wouldn't, then it's just words that don't mean anything.

[Unseeking Seeker]

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Love an endless intuitive outpouring of joyous, non-judgmental, non-discriminating, unconditional giving, without calculation, computation or hesitation, with no expectation of reciprocation or even recognition.

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