Transubstantiation.

Originally Posted by sky

Im referring to Non-Christians Mo.

You miss the point. There are Christians who are not Catholic that do not accept transubstantiation in its literal sense…..metaphorically yes…..

[Aknaton]

I enjoy the teansubstantiated bread and wine. If you have taken it by someone with the priestly anointing and he conducts the Last supper, the experiences of consuming these elements can be breathtaking and sometimes unexplainable in our human languages. Your soul can find itself launching into very strange heavenly realms whilst sitting and eating with the twelve Apostles and other saints. I have heard of many people going back in time and witnessing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. When I take it myself, I feel like Jesus, my heart becomes so soft and filled with love and compassion, my mind becomes crystal clear and I feel a strong sense of the importance of the spiritual life in comparison to the day to day earthly life.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

You miss the point. There are Christians who are not Catholic that do not accept transubstantiation in its literal sense…..metaphorically yes…..

Yes I know that Mo....
I'm referring to Non-Christians...

[Maisy]

Transubstantiation is the conversion of the bread and wine of the mass into the body and blood of Jesus. Only how it looks remains. I would add it still tastes like bread and wine as well as I have had it.

I'm not sure anyone can explain it. What supernatural power does a priest have to do such a miracle? Can such a miracle be proved? I'm not sure even the Catholic Church can explain how it happens. It's just accepted on faith and belief.

The priest and church tells us it has been made into Jesus's body and blood. Obviously a scientist could examine the bread and wine and look for any changes. I assume there are no physical changes or we humans can't detect them. So I guess it would be explained as supernatural. The change can't actually be detected in any way by humans.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Molearner

There are Christians who are not Catholic that do not accept transubstantiation in its literal sense…..metaphorically yes…..

It would be interesting to talk to someone who takes it in it's literal sense. My question to them would be why do you eat the actual flesh of Jesus and drink his blood? For what reason? But of course it comes from Jesus's words according to the bible:

John 6:53-57
New International Version
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me

Matthew 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” 27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Transubstantiation is the conversion of the bread and wine of the mass into the body and blood of Jesus.

It's the Sacrament of the Eucharist which is a re-enactment of the Last Supper not the Mass, you can have one without the other....

[Maisy]

The fact that at that time in history some would sacrifice animals and eat and drink their blood in offerings to their God's may explain why Jesus said what he did. Like he may have been saying you don't need to do those old rituals of killing animals and eating them and drinking their blood to appease your God's, I am enough, I am the truth and way and life, and my death on the cross and sacrifice of my body and blood is being given as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Is is said here...

Matthew 26:27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


John 6:53-57
New International Version
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Meaning my life and sacrifice of it on the cross was the real deal and your sacrifice of animals does nothing.

I would also add the idea was not unique or unknown as in Mithraism practiced in the Roman Empire followers worshipped the Indo-Iranian deity Mithram, the god of friendship, contract, and order. Mirroring the Catholic Eucharistic rite, the idea of transubstantiation was a characteristic of Mithraic sacraments that included cake and Haoma drink. But the ritual probably wasn’t original to Mithraism either. In Egypt around 3100 BC, priests would consecrate cakes which were to become the flesh of the god Osiris and eaten.

Our daily bread is the Word of God…..to partake of it means to interpret it….to digest it…..and to be given life through this process… I see this as an analogy that applies to communion in the same sense…..

In regards to blood, specifically, we are familiar with it would be the sign for God to Passover…Exodus 12:13

In support of transubstantiation a reasoning can be advanced from Leviticus 3:6-17. It speaks of fellowship offerings and the rules for doing it properly. The blood was to be sprinkled on the altar…..the fat etc was to burned on the altar as food, an offering made to the Lord by fire. These verses close with v 17…..”you must not eat any fat or any blood”. Now to be told by Jesus to drink his blood can only mean that we, through this process, have become one with the Lord and are entitled to partake of that which was formerly reserved for the Lord. Nevertheless, let us remember that communion(in its truest sense) is in the spiritual realm and not of the material world. As long as one cannot conceive of anything beyond the material this particular thing will be viewed as nonsense by the rational mind.

Unfortunately, almost by default, science has become our god. We now define truth as that which can be verified by science. In contrast, the Scriptures tells that “the wisdom of man is foolishness to God”. The rational mind can view the spiritual as an impasse…….

[Guillaume]

Originally Posted by Molearner

There are Christians who are not Catholic that do not accept transubstantiation in its literal sense…..metaphorically yes…..

I was raised catholic and transubstantiation was explained in a metaphorical sense. The country culture (and language) influences a lot how scriptures are interpreted imo.

But if your experience is divine, I guess no one would want to interfere.