*Need help* malevolent aliens in astral/etheric plane

Originally Posted by earthatic

I would appreciate it if people who read this would be kind enough to pray for me, as I am having serious trouble. Please read:

A few months ago when I started to take astral projection more seriously (I'd often just go out of body for fun anytime I'd have sleep paralysis), I'd see these strange black shadowy figures standing in my room. For some reason my instincts told me to avoid them...I got a really bad feeling from them. I'm only going to list a couple of interactions because I've had A LOT of them.

One night I kept being woken up by one of these things. It seemed like it was trying to provoke me in some way. As I woke up in the morning, it was hovering above me. I asked "What do you want?" and it seemed like the instant I said this, I felt intense fear. I couldn't help but scream. The black mist took the form of some sort of monster and it let out a gravely shriek and shot toward me very quickly. I managed to muscle my way out of sleep paralysis before it could reach me. I felt very strange the entire morning.

I then decided to find out what this thing was. I astral projected very easily, except I had a hard time controlling my movements and seemed to be moving around my apartment against my will. I heard a whisper say "Did you always know I was here on Earth?". Without thinking I responded "You were never here on Earth." I was then put back into my body.

This was the first indication I got that these things were definitely aliens. At first I had thought they were demons of some kind, or simply astral negs, or my own thought forms. Nope.

Only recently, I have tried to find a medium who could help me find out about these things, as these spirits were very reluctant to tell me anything about themselves. Magically, these spirits woke me up in the middle of the night (on the day I started searching) and admitted that they were aliens.

I've so far seen at least 5 or 6 in their real form. There is:

2 Reptiles These things are really mean. They try to shapeshift into forms of people they think you will trust (tried taking the form of my mother). One time I wasn't fooled and tried getting a closer look at it..it turned into a dark green scaly thing with big yellow eyes and started hissing at me, I felt like it was about to try and hurt me. When asking one of these if it was male or female, it said it was both. I've also caught this thing hugging me very tightly while I sleep. It's very uncomfortable.
1 Grey This thing sounds like a cat mixed with the voice of an old man when it speaks...not nice to listen to. Seems to be wearing a mask of some kind, and a black jumpsuit. The way I could tell he was a grey was because he had very large hands that looked like they were missing a finger on each. They were grey in color. This guy doesn't seem that bad, but I have no reason think he's good.
2 Praying mantis type things One male, one female. These were actually surprisingly gentle, but don't respond nicely to positive emotion. They literally look like a giant praying mantis with large black eyes. I know they're not benevolent because one time I tried to imagine a white light and form it in the shape of a cross, and projected it in it's direction. I felt a very unpleasant and painful tingling in my body when I tried this. I find this usually deters negative entities, but it seemed like I really just ****ed it off.

Unknown I never got a good look at this thing, but have spoken to it briefly. It was extremely large (at least 7 feet tall), muscular, and had yellow eyes and strange texture to it's skin. This may be just another reptilian, which would not surprise me because I remember it saying it's race was "stronger than humans".


I won't list all my experiences with these things, but they either fall under two categories:

- Conversations where I emotionally detach. They seem more than willing to talk to me.
- Try to provoke fear or anger in me. They've tried almost every trick in the book to test my reaction to certain things. I'm not frightened very easily, and they've only managed to scare me maybe 3 times. They've resorted to try to create other reactions in me, which I'm too embarrassed to talk about, but they don't work too well on me either.

My lack of response to them seems to be making them extremely angry and persistent, and they have even harmed me on some occasions. They're just a bunch of bullies pretty much. I really want to end this because it is starting to get out of hand.



I really need help because I can't seem to get rid of them. Burning sage, doing certain types of meditation, and praying seems to help a bit, but they just come back, and with more force.

Hi.

If you'd like, you could try this:

When you want to expel these figures:

Place your left hand over your solar plexus. Put your fingers of your right hand in the shape of a gun with the index and middle fingers extended, the other two fingers closed and the thumb up. Extend your arm straight in front of you, pointing at the figure, and then pronounce the following words three times:

In the Name of Jupiter,
Father of Deities,
I expel you,
Te Vigos Cosilim.

Remember to do it three times if it donesn't go away the first time(s).

If there is an afterlife, it is more likely to be like the Bardo Thodol explains.

Why is that likely more than any other explanation? If you're going by the conclusion that there's no evidence for the afterlife at all, on what basis can you say that this interpretation is more likely than any other?

Believing in demons is adding fuel to the fire when you project if you ask me.

I'll just make it clear that I never use the word "demon" when referring to negative astral dwellers, because I think it's an inaccurate and silly word that conjures archetypes and doesn't allow for much flexibility in definition. The reality is that bad people exist in the world and so they also exist in the astral world. People have free will and can make their own choices, so there is nothing to stop someone being mean after they die.

There is no evidence whatsoever that spirits even exist.

??? Again, where would you expect this "evidence" to come from?

And don't even tell me about "validations" in so-called "astral projection" experiences. There are more mundane explanations for them like the fact that coincidences happen more often than not, cryptomnesia where you know more than you think you know, and pure associations that the mind makes. There have been cases where people who have met so-called spirit guides and asked for their names only to find out later that the names were anagrams for something significant to them like their own names, or their partners, etc. etc.

These are decent points, but consider that many of those things you mention are based on scientific theories. As someone who has studied psychology, a great deal of psychological studies are just plain ****. I studied psychology before I learned of astral projection and even then I was shocked and dismayed at just how poorly done the so-called "scientific" studies were carried out. It made me realize that many of the scientific truths society holds on to are little more than wild guesses. So yes, while all those things are real phenomena, there is no telling from where it originates.

Why overlook other more mundane possibilities and embrace a fairytale-like notion such as the "astral" and a spiritual system that some has come up with aeons ago which is nothing but a theoretical interpretation?

That is a matter of perspective. To me, the astral is the most mundane explanation. Occams Razor is only effective in practise to a point; trying to apply it in any serious issue is pointless because it purposefully limits your exposure to things outside of your comfort zone. So yeah, I'll trust Occams Razor when I need to find my keys, but when it comes to the big questions it's a bad joke to try and apply it meaningfully.

Also, who said anything about a spiritual system? Reality is reality. It sounds as if you're just resistant to considering anything you perceive as "religious" or "New Age" or something. Personally I do not like any of those things myself, but I'm not about to ignore reality staring me in the face because of attachment to objectionable ways of thinking. It's not pragmatic.

You guys talk about it like the existence of spirits and the afterlife has already been proven. Do me a favour and be more pragmatic because it's healthier.

Proven by who? Or what? Are you waiting for conventional science to do something about it? Don't hold your breath. The scientific process is indeed perfect, I utilize it for all my extra-dimensional activities as much as possible. However you seem to forget that the scientific process is an ideal in conventional science, it's nowhere near commonplace. "Science" is driven by any other human motivations; what makes you think scientists are exempt from the biases and mind tricks you laid out for us above? Science is driven by money first and foremost. Remember a few decades ago when cigarettes were scientifically proven to be non-hazardous to your health? Yeah, case in point. Ignoring the facts such as:

a) Money matters most. Period.

b) Conventional science is inherently biased against extra-dimensional possibilities. Nobody is willing to study it objectively or fund it, out of fear of looking silly. The few studies that exist are swept under the rug when they produce positive results.

c) Science is done in a physical manner with physical instruments. Expecting it to prove something that is non-physical is not realistic. That's like using a thermometer as a geiger counter; it's the wrong tool for the job. Choose a new set of tools.

... is not pragmatic.

I wonder if you've even reviewed any of the studies that you base your opinions off. You might be surprised at the logical leaps that scientists make to try and support their theories (aka pre-conceived notions and expectations). If a study result does not meet up to their expectations, do you know what they do? Yep, they embellish. Because they're human. They have bills to pay, people to impress, a social ladder to climb, an ego that needs stroking, and a reputation to uphold. They're not all noble truth-seekers out for the advancement of humanity.

I'm not saying discount conventional science, just don't put so much of your faith in it. It's not exactly pragmatic.


I am confused as to why you bother astral projecting if it's not something that has been "proven" (by who?) to you. Certainly different people will have different motivations but I don't see why you would bother projecting if you think it's just some kind of elaborate dream.

You do raise some good points about objectivity and subjectivity, however I think you have gotten these notions from somewhere other than your own reasoning...what influences are you drawing upon to make these conclusions?

to the poster of this thread.

When you said that you stopped your meditation because of this reptile thing?

If you missed my post, please go and read it, but as i said, they are tricksters.
Its energy was enough for you to stop, therefore this is a level of control.
You changed your own thoughts and actions because of it. Why do you think it wants to stop you reaching higher places? because it will be repelled. Don't be influeneced by them you just hand them power over you.

Also another post you said that when you attacked one, it backed off?

Yes they are no power for any human spirit that takes the light path.
However all it will do and this happened to me early on, is that it will just go and get something or more of them.

When i attacked a spirit in my house while projecting, when i didnt know much. A few days later, instead of one i had more of them do deal with, and they more very much stronger. not in the sense of power, but this is there game, they live of it. so they knew how to be more deceptive and tricky to understand. instead of normal spirits, i had shifters and vampires. theses are the names i hear when im projecting so thats what i call them.

however they cannot harm you, so next time, just beaware of its presense but don't let its presense of image disrupt you, it just allows it to continue.

hope it helps
luke

Thanks for your post Alan

I didn't really start this thread in anticipation of debate over spiritual concepts. I started it assuming people who have experiences with these things could help with something many of us already know to be real.

If you saw this thread as an opportunity to share your views and opinions on the subject is fine, but arguing your own subjective beliefs (while thinking everyone else's logic is inferior) is a waste of time because most us have already made up our minds about these things. We don't need to prove anything to you.

[Xan]

Although in the beginning of my experience with this negative entity I desperately wanted to get rid of him, at one point I realized that's not my best use of his persistence with me, but it was my opportunity to get stronger in my spiritual focus within and to give compassion where it is obviously needed.

If we radiate love and forgiveness in order to achieve some end such as getting away from a creepy being, or even to help it, we have missed the point of love. The real challenge is to not to look for particular effects but to go into love for-no-reason... surrendering into the wisdom and power of love itself.


Xan

Luke, I don't really know what else I could have done in that situation. Am I supposed to ignore the being while it is rubbing the top of my head causing my awareness to be affected? I was already filled with positive energy and was ascending into the higher astral.
I haven't had any real negative experiences since that night, but I wouldn't be surprised if I were to be confronted with more evil spirits sometime soon, but I don't plan on attacking. Most times when I see these things it is usually after a nightmare, and I spot one in my room somewhere watching me. For some reason my head is always facing it's direction when this happens. I usually just wake up, go get a glass of water, and go back to bed. When I went to purposefully attack this thing, I was seeking it out on purpose just so I could experiment with offensive and defensive techniques so I would be prepared if I ever get harmed by them again (I don't consider nightmares an attack). And if you are to say that this is fueling the fire, I seriously doubt it. It would be foolish not to learnt defend yourself from negative beings.

As for the last situation with the reptile, I honestly have no idea what I could have done. I was filled with positive energy and in a higher dimension where that being shouldn't have been.

Originally Posted by earthatic

Thanks for your post Alan

I didn't really start this thread in anticipation of debate over spiritual concepts. I started it assuming people who have experiences with these things could help with something many of us already know to be real.

If you saw this thread as an opportunity to share your views and opinions on the subject is fine, but arguing your own subjective beliefs (while thinking everyone else's logic is inferior) is a waste of time because most us have already made up our minds about these things. We don't need to prove anything to you.

Sorry, I can be a bit chatty... I will not continue the discussion in this thread. Summerlander, if you wish to reply then please create a new thread or reply to me via private message so that we do not impose off-topicness on this thread.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by earthatic

As for the last situation with the reptile... I was filled with positive energy and in a higher dimension where that being shouldn't have been.

I'm going to question your interpretation of this again, earthatic. I've checked with my resources above and the consensus is "where that sort of being couldn't have been".

It may be that from other experiences you have an expectation of negative intrusion, when it may actually have been beneficial... to support you in not just transcending into a higher dimension, for instance, but merging into oneness.

If it were me and it showed up again I would have a conversation with it. William Buhlman, in his first book "Adventures Beyond the Body", describes his experiences with apparently negative entities who changed when confronted in an equal sort of way... like you might with a troublesome co-worker.


Xan

It may have been doing something that would have benefit me, but I have a hard time trusting beings that try to compell me to do something, yet do not even tell me what they're trying to make me do. I have had a few tricksters fool me in the past, so forgive me if I don't trust a being that is probably malevolent.

I have talked to these things before, asking for information about the afterlife, what certain things mean in bible, ect... Basic stuff. I assumed certain ones were my spirit guides, until one night a hooded being in a black robe told me to stop asking questions and interacting with them because they would eventually take "something" from me in return, and to either find my own answers or go to my guides. So that's one thing that has made me more cautious when encountering any type of spirit, because you don't always know who you're interacting with.

Alan...

I just want to say that money matters to some in this world. Also, the "negative entities" interpretation is also inaccurate because what one considers to be negative might be considered as positive for someone else. It's like someone saying that they don't like nightmares because they are scary and someone else coming along and saying that nightmares are useful in making you face your fears...

And I'll admit that science can be wrong, sure...but you have to remember that your theory that there is an astral plane populated by spiritual beings is just as valid and the theory that it is all an illusion concocted by the brain.

You are just biased by one side of the coin, my friend. That's all.