Energy in Buddhism

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

@Gem, so in your mind the Tibetan Buddhist approach that aims to remove mental and emotional obstructions from rasana and lalana subtle channels would also be self-delusion and not Buddhist?

@JB I agree that we need to get rid of obstructions in the emotional and mental channels, but how to go about that will differ between you, me, and the Tibetan Buddhists. Goes to show how tricky this stuff is, even when people might agree on what to do

Very true, and the different means is why there are different traditions within Buddhism.

If energy isn't your thing you are probably a Theravada practitioner. If you are okay with using energy you go with the more tantra traditions.

Taoism and Hinduism has traditions broken down in much the same way. Interesting note on Taoism, they even have traditions that work with energy but they are split. Some you use the mind to directly control it and others you use the body.

Lot's of paths to fit the individual.

[running]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think in Buddhism you have to understand from the 4 noble truths that craving is the cause of suffering and the cessation of craving is the end of suffering, but as an intellectual understanding we might imagine this refers to a tangible and objective thing when it doesn't. You have to investigate yourself to see how you generate your own suffering, and by seeing that insightfully, cease to do that. That cessation is what we call equanimity, which is not a thing itself, but the absence to those impulses which disturb the balance of minds and keep us distracted from what is actually happening.


We have a certain ability and a certain limitation, so at some point sensation becomes overwhelming and we lose equanimity. The art is not losing the equanimity of the mind, which means not reacting to the sensed phenomena in the sense of having no personal investment in it because it doesn't happen to me.



The idea that you can remove obstacles is where the ego become adverse to some feelings and wants rid of them, but in meditation it's simply true that it feels like this and all feelings pass, and if you really investigate it an realise that is true, you see that you can't possibly make it some other way and hence cease trying to. But there is still the issue of reactivity. Not liking it is one thing. I don't like having vomit in my hair, but how you react is different... you could calmly wash the vomit away or you could become highly agitated and generate a whole load of suffering... and it is this latter tendency we refer to ad 'craving'...



It is not an apathetic indifference. It is the ability to know 'this is how it is' without being disturbed by it, and that is a very difficult thing to do when the sensations become extreme. If we look at blocks, they are only emotions which we are personally invested in, we are always trying to avoid them, resist them, heal them and what have you. JB is thinking if ony we do this and that special energy practice we can get rid of the thing, but that's only an aversion toward it, and meditation is the cessation not of the blockage, which is a sensation, but of the adverse reactivity one has toward it that causes them to resist avoid get rid heal it and so on. That is all self-delusion getting involved trough the 'craving'.

everything you said is true from the expereince of the mind and emotions. im not sure if you read other posts leading to this one. but if you read what i wrote as we discussed you should see(if i explained well enough) i was speaking from what makes the concern of suffering in the context of what you wrote irrevelant.

i don't know if im responding to the reason you brought up in your post?

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So, it seems after telling me you disagree with me in the end you are saying what I have been saying.

There is an ego and there is that which is beyond ego.

That realization is non dual.

One grows not by intellectual understanding but by changes in ones being. Energy and silence.. removing of obstructions does that.

What am I missing?

redo. was to tired to think last time. ego becomes friends with no ego. the two become one. or the three become one. bliss, silence, and you!

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

redo. was to tired to think last time. ego becomes friends with no ego. the two become one. or the three become one. bliss, silence, and you!

So there is always a running for instance?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Very true, and the different means is why there are different traditions within Buddhism.

If energy isn't your thing you are probably a Theravada practitioner. If you are okay with using energy you go with the more tantra traditions.

Taoism and Hinduism has traditions broken down in much the same way. Interesting note on Taoism, they even have traditions that work with energy but they are split. Some you use the mind to directly control it and others you use the body.

Lot's of paths to fit the individual.

INTERESTING POINTS!
......... in Theravada Buddhism, energy is felt differently thru the Temples and Statues. Energy is felt thru devotion especially the desire to be a monk or nun at least once in their life time. Energy is felt in the simple things especially in the sight of the huge Sun rising over the rise fields or in the quietness of the Water Buffalo.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

INTERESTING POINTS!
......... in Theravada Buddhism, energy is felt differently thru the Temples and Statues. Energy is felt thru devotion especially the desire to be a monk or nun at least once in their life time. Energy is felt in the simple things especially in the sight of the huge Sun rising over the rise fields or in the quietness of the Water Buffalo.

Yes, it is most often explained as will in Theravada.

In tantra it is much different.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So there is always a running for instance?

yes.




.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Very true, and the different means is why there are different traditions within Buddhism.

If energy isn't your thing you are probably a Theravada practitioner. If you are okay with using energy you go with the more tantra traditions.

Taoism and Hinduism has traditions broken down in much the same way. Interesting note on Taoism, they even have traditions that work with energy but they are split. Some you use the mind to directly control it and others you use the body.

Lot's of paths to fit the individual.

No not a Theravada practitioner, I’m not any sort of Buddhist, I fundamentally disagree with the aims of Buddhism. I like Tibetan Buddhism to an extent, but probably only the bits which aren’t typically Buddhist, like their clear understanding of the two side channels. I find their methods somewhat distasteful though, and I disagree with their end point if this article is authentic Tibetan Buddhism:

http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-07.htm

[Hologram8]

I find their methods somewhat distasteful though

I find the sky burial distasteful

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

No not a Theravada practitioner, I’m not any sort of Buddhist, I fundamentally disagree with the aims of Buddhism. I like Tibetan Buddhism to an extent, but probably only the bits which aren’t typically Buddhist, like their clear understanding of the two side channels. I find their methods somewhat distasteful though, and I disagree with their end point if this article is authentic Tibetan Buddhism:

http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-07.htm

I looked at the article. Looks like a lot of guessing and very little direct experience. I would look for a better source on Buddhist tantra.