rational vs emotional

I wanted to put a plug in for rational thinking and objectivity. So much of what passes for spirituality today seems to be very subjective and emotional.

I do believe we need to develop both sides, and bot play an important part in our spiritual progress, but I think if our emotions aren't subject to rationality, then it's unlikely we'll really find the truth.

I also like that while Jesus was a mystic (i.e. someone who was/felt completely one with God), he didn't just promote feelings, or flowery speech. The new age is all about renunciation, but it's almost always left up to the 'feelings' of each person and becomes completely subjective. Jesus made 'rule's' (if you like), objective guidelines to help us on or spiritual journey.

People tend to NOT LIKE the 'rules' he gave us, because secretly most of us don't want to be accountable spiritually to anyone. Thus we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are more spiritual than we are, because we throughout objectivity.

I think everyone knows how important it is to rationally think over issues, and to set standards/goals for measurement if we want to improve in areas, so why is this so hard to do in spiritual matters?

So much that passes for spirituallity is like the wells without water that Jude spoke of. Nearly all religions/spiritual paths focus on emotionalism, and it sounds great, and people oohh and aahh over it, but ask most people what practical teaching they got which they can pass on, most will be dumbfounded. And say something like ''you just have to experience it for yourself'.

Anyway, like I said. A plug for emotionalism to be subject to rationalism.

I don't understand. What rules do you think Jesus made that you think people don't like?

But right on the other hand, are we bleeding spiritual things of their power by rationalizing them away with our human perspective.

We have many "Holy Books," that speak of miracles, healing etc, and they tell us that any person can do these things if they are at one with God. Yet we rationalize it all away and say that the age of miracles and spiritual power has passed away. There are many people today who were once terminal, and through prayer or some such activity were healed. And we shake our heads at that and say things like "placebo effect." We don't know how to handle or compute such things even though we claim to be spiritual.

So where is the true balance in your question? We either seem to be too rational, or we get too emotional over spiritual things and defeat ourselves on both ends of the spectrum. There has to be a happy medium.

This is a great topic! Thanks for starting this thread.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

If we believe that Jesus spoke these things .....he said there were two commandments under which all "law" falls.

To me what stands out and really has nothing to do with this thread....or maybe it does...is that Jesus said to love God, and your neighbors as yourself. That seems to be three (God, me and others) But no he says two...so I shall love myself as my neighbor which could be interpreted as there are no "others". Me and you are one.....and then there is God.

Originally Posted by Shabby

This is a great topic! Thanks for starting this thread.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

If we believe that Jesus spoke these things .....he said there were two commandments under which all "law" falls.

To me what stands out and really has nothing to do with this thread....or maybe it does...is that Jesus said to love God, and your neighbors as yourself. That seems to be three (God, me and others) But no he says two...so I shall love myself as my neighbor which could be interpreted as there are no "others". Me and you are one.....and then there is God.

I don't see only two commandments there. I see three.

1 Love God
2 Love your neighbor
3 Love yourself

I know you are saying that if we and our neighbors are seen as one, there are only two commandments.
If we see God as we, there is then only one.

[Jyotir]

Hi ciel_perdu,

Spiritual growth must by nature be a 'subjective' experience. There is really no other way. That doesn't mean an aspirant throws rationality out the window, but that any rationality is in terms of a personal individual awareness and practical application of necessary expedients in one's spiritual life.

From a spiritual pov, what "objective" means, is when someone embodies what they have experienced subjectively as being fully, permanently realized.

As to 'emotionalism', like with many qualities of human nature, spirituality seems to require the transmutation into higher more divine expressions.

'Rationalism' and 'emotionalism' are not necessarily mutually exclusive in spiritual practice - they just have more or less appropriate forms and applications.

~ J

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't see only two commandments there. I see three.

1 Love God
2 Love your neighbor
3 Love yourself

I know you are saying that if we and our neighbors are seen as one, there are only two commandments.
If we see God as we, there is then only one.

Yes, Mayflow...I see three too, but Jesus said there were only two. So I am wondering which two did he mean?

Speaking to the topic of using rational thought in spiritual matters, I would like to share that God who created our spirits also created our mind, God communicates with the mind as well as the spirit.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Originally Posted by nightowl

Speaking to the topic of using rational thought in spiritual matters, I would like to share that God who created our spirits also created our mind, God communicates with the mind as well as the spirit.

OK, but when are you going to talk about rational stuff?

Originally Posted by Mayflow

OK, but when are you going to talk about rational stuff?

So what is your definition of rational stuff, it's simply means thinking something through, this can be applied to spiritual matters...please clarify what you mean so I can better understand your question?