What you should really be tensed about

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by Justme1981

Remember we love you here on Spiritual forums but something to think about. If Datta Swami were sincere in his teachings why take money for it? Why create an expensive organization that takes in money to teach people not take money? It is Ironic?

There were many spiritual master on here who all go answers from each other and did it for free just to be guided. Why doesn't Datta Swami do that himself? I can mention their names on here but they have all moved on. Like all of us realize Spirituality is important but once you get the answers you move on; no one gives you the answers for pay, you get them through bonding. It is not a life calling to be spiritual a the life calling of life is the life calling and it involves everything and not just one thing....especially when someone is trying to sell it to you. Just something to think about with humility and respect.

I'm assuming you haven't really gone through the Swami's website. Nowhere in the website does it mention that money is to be donated to him. The organization that you speak of is run by a handful of volunteers who maintain a simple website and spread the Swami's teachings out of a deep sense of love. You're mistaken if you think Datta Swami runs an expensive organization.

I definitely agree with you when you say that you don't get the answers you're looking for by paying someone money. And the world today is filled to the brim with fraudulent preachers who grab money from naive disciples in a cunning and seemingly justified manner.

That said, donating money for a genuinely good cause is never a bad thing. In fact, it weakens your bond with money. All the violence and greed we see in the world today is due to wrong knowledge. By spreading true spiritual knowledge, we can tackle these problems at the root. In that sense, sacrificing your hard-earned money for a spiritual cause is the best thing to do. Not only do you weaken your bond with money but you also strengthen your bond with God.

However, one needs to be extremely careful about donating money, especially in our times. Donating your hard-earned money to selfish people posing as spiritual preachers is worse than not donating money at all.

I've carefully analyzed the Swami's teachings over the past few months. After having implemented a minuscule portion of the Swami's teachings in my life, I've noticed incredibly positive changes in many areas of life. Judging by practical experience, I can honestly say that his knowledge has the potential to bring about highly positive changes in spiritual seekers. That's the reason why I try to post the Swami's teaching every now and them. It's just with the intention of sharing something that has been truly beneficial to me.

Moreover, Datta Swami is pretty old. He belongs to the post World War I generation. He can't even type properly, let alone join spiritual forums such as these and post on them. So it's justified when people who have been benefited by his knowledge take the pain of spreading it for the benefit of others.

Please go through the Swami's website before coming to a conclusion. Cheers!

Originally Posted by dattaseva

The desire to be successful is not wrong by itself. But the desire to be successful in worldy affairs is wrong. On the other hand, the desire to be successful in one's spiritual efforts is not wrong at all.

Hello, dattaseva,
Why would you say that (the emboldened bit)? Just my own view: like it or not we are here alive for a time and the hope for some is to refine their soul, their "state of being" so they are in a more refined condition before moving on. As such we face many challenges - education is just one. Then (unless you want to close down) making a living which will mean work which you will have to accomplish with some success - or get fired. Your family comes with challenges, your managing a budget likewise. What is important is to get "the world around" sized up; see it for the fakery social conditioning tries to force on us.

For some, you see, success in worldly affairs is inextricably mixed up with their spirituality. (I cite myself as an example, considering myself to lead a spiritual life...distinguishing it from ascetic but spiritual all the same. I'm here to do my bit, and I'll do it as close to Nature / natural intent and in accord with higher principles as is possible, for which I have to negotiate myself through my environs. I'm not acquisitive, my value judgements are usually non-financial (though I appreciate that as a relative measure) - and so on. You don't want to hear my story - but the point is success in worldly matters is often tied in with success in spiritual matters.)

Desire is dynamic. Without desire, there is no life. So desire itself is not to be criticized. Rather, it is the direction of desire that is to be criticized. If the desire is turned towards God, then it's best possible thing that can happen. Desire turned towards the world is wrong and leads to unnecessary suffering.

Desiring to fulfill one's basic needs (which differ from case to case) is not wrong. However, the desire for excessive self-pleasures is definitely wrong.

Well, that is your view to which you have a right. Others may feel differently, such as the gnostic for whom God is within them as much as up in the sky somewhere. As above, so below. And some would see extremes of pleasure as a way to spiritual enlightenment. Between poles of self-denial and absolute ecstasy lies a spectrum. We land somewhere in it and make decisions about which is right, wrong or optimal for ourselves. The God you speak of gave us the capacity to experience extremes of ecstasy just as It gave us a similar capacity to experience withdrawal / solitude. It also gives us the capacity to strive and succeed in targets we are inspired to set while here (if we interpret Its messages aright).

Interesting discussion.

...

Originally Posted by dattaseva

In that sense, what really matters is God. Worldly activities are useful only for the bare minimum purpose of maintaining one's body and the minimum number of worldly bonds associated with it. Excessive sensory gratification will inevitably lead to illusion.

Not sure I could agree with such teaching. Most of our experiences involve some component of sensuality - without the sensual we'd (for a start) be emotionless. One could argue that that's not such a bad proposition - but that's a different story. The processes at any or all levels might be illusory - but so what, as long as we are aware of an illusion's nature we can handle it. It's the same with optical illusions. Once you know how one works it ceases to be an illusion because you manipulate your perception to see all possibilities.

Would you say music is an illusion? You might indeed - sound organised in a structured way fires up our senses in one way or another. Why should the complex compression and rarefaction of molecules act upon our senses they way they do? But we can immerse ourselves in it to overload. Can it ever be fully gratified? Likewise with sensual physical acts - aren't they a device invented by this "God" mainly to bring together genders to further animate life? Difficult to deny.

We were given the integrative capacity of our senses - our sensuality - by whatever created us. I see no problem in the spiritual person exploring them as part of discovering one's selfhood.

We should all write our own Holy Book.

...

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Hello, dattaseva,
Why would you say that (the emboldened bit)? Just my own view: like it or not we are here alive for a time and the hope for some is to refine their soul, their "state of being" so they are in a more refined condition before moving on. As such we face many challenges - education is just one. Then (unless you want to close down) making a living which will mean work which you will have to accomplish with some success - or get fired. Your family comes with challenges, your managing a budget likewise. What is important is to get "the world around" sized up; see it for the fakery social conditioning tries to force on us.

For some, you see, success in worldly affairs is inextricably mixed up with their spirituality. (I cite myself as an example, considering myself to lead a spiritual life...distinguishing it from ascetic but spiritual all the same. I'm here to do my bit, and I'll do it as close to Nature / natural intent and in accord with higher principles as is possible, for which I have to negotiate myself through my environs. I'm not acquisitive, my value judgements are usually non-financial (though I appreciate that as a relative measure) - and so on. You don't want to hear my story - but the point is success in worldly matters is often tied in with success in spiritual matters.)

Let’s just say that the emboldened part you refer to is an oversimplification. The desire to be successful in worldly affairs is wrong in a certain sense. That is to say, if one wants a good career, a happy family life, reasonable leisure time, etc., it’s not really wrong. However, it’s the attachment to the want that is wrong.

If you desire for something that you think is justifiable and you still don’t get it even after your best efforts, then maybe it’s happening for your good in ways that you cannot comprehend. In other words, man proposes, God disposes. It’s the blind desire for the fruit of your actions that’s wrong, which leads to a sense of failure and deep discontentment.

An impoverished person who constantly thinks about where his next penny is going come from will definitely not have the time to think about God and spirituality. A person who’s reasonably well off is in a much better position to divert his or her energy towards spiritual pursuits. In that sense, yes, your spiritual progress is also intertwined with your material state.

However, there are very rare souls who have progressed so far down the line that they become immune to both poverty and luxury. No matter what the external circumstances, such blessed souls think only about God. That’s the level an ordinary soul like me should aspire to reach.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Well, that is your view to which you have a right. Others may feel differently, such as the gnostic for whom God is within them as much as up in the sky somewhere. As above, so below. And some would see extremes of pleasure as a way to spiritual enlightenment. Between poles of self-denial and absolute ecstasy lies a spectrum. We land somewhere in it and make decisions about which is right, wrong or optimal for ourselves. The God you speak of gave us the capacity to experience extremes of ecstasy just as It gave us a similar capacity to experience withdrawal / solitude. It also gives us the capacity to strive and succeed in targets we are inspired to set while here (if we interpret Its messages aright).

Interesting discussion.

...

All truth comes from the same source. If we take the time to carefully analyze various spiritual philosophies, we’ll sooner or later start finding some universal commonalities that appear in almost all religions/philosophies. It’s these that concepts we need to stick to and implement in our lives, I feel. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a gnostic view or a vedic view or an islamic view, what matters is whether a particular piece of knowledge is suitable to your level of understanding and helps you progress towards the truth. Different levels of truth exist for different people. But the same ultimate truth forms the basis of all these levels.

As far as I can say with certainty, we need only stick to the knowledge that removes the cloud of confusion prevailing in the mind of almost every eager spiritual aspirant. If a certain piece of spiritual knowledge has truly helped after you've sincerely implemented in your life, then it's pertinent to you.

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Not sure I could agree with such teaching. Most of our experiences involve some component of sensuality - without the sensual we'd (for a start) be emotionless. One could argue that that's not such a bad proposition - but that's a different story. The processes at any or all levels might be illusory - but so what, as long as we are aware of an illusion's nature we can handle it. It's the same with optical illusions. Once you know how one works it ceases to be an illusion because you manipulate your perception to see all possibilities.

Would you say music is an illusion? You might indeed - sound organised in a structured way fires up our senses in one way or another. Why should the complex compression and rarefaction of molecules act upon our senses they way they do? But we can immerse ourselves in it to overload. Can it ever be fully gratified? Likewise with sensual physical acts - aren't they a device invented by this "God" mainly to bring together genders to further animate life? Difficult to deny.

We were given the integrative capacity of our senses - our sensuality - by whatever created us. I see no problem in the spiritual person exploring them as part of discovering one's selfhood.

We should all write our own Holy Book.

...

Nobody can deny the fact that the Creator gave us sensory constructs to make sense of this world. We can use them or misuse them; it’s up to us to a certain level.

Depending upon our innate qualities, we are naturally attracted or repulsed by certain things (including events, people, ideas, etc.). This is not wrong in any way. However, its blind attraction or blind repulsion that causes all the problems. Sensual physical acts are definitely designed the way they are by God to facilitate reproduction. But to use that as excuse to wallow in sex is another thing altogether.

There is really no problem in exploring sensuality as part of discovering one’s selfhood as you say. But to use that as an excuse to stay at the same stage and to keep doing the same things over and over again is definitely wrong.

At a higher stage, a spiritual seeker is completely immersed in God. When attraction/attachment towards God reaches a peak, repulsion/detachment towards the world arises naturally and spontaneously. Such a person who is constantly immersed in God may be in the middle of a harem with a hundred beautiful women and may be enjoying all kinds of sensual pleasures, but it does not matter for his mind is always on God. The same person whether he’s in a desert or in the midst of a drinking bout, will always be the same, in the sense that his mind is always fixated on God.

I don’t know about you, but I’m at a stage where indulging in excessive sensory pleasures (including sex, drugs, etc.) simply results in me yearning for more of the same. God goes for a toss at such times. And that’s contrary to spiritual progress for sure. So with an honest conscience, I can definitely say, for my level of spiritual progress, excessive sensory pleasures are very illusion-rendering.