enlightenment and the ultimacy of everything

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by wstein

Emotionally, it doesn't feel like anything. What is evident (from the 'normal' state) is a lack of disembodied voices speaking in your head.

Its most noticeable when the last voice stops. Its not unlike getting in a car in the city and driving to the country. Its only when you step out of the car do you realized the background sounds are gone.
If you are in a state for a long time, you tends to pay less attention to it. Are you still noticing where the weight of your clothes is on your body?

The most obvious case of missing entering such a state is when you are distracted by something else when you get in that state. For instance say you are white water rafting through a section of rapids. Its unlikely you are paying any attention to your internal state. Extreme example I know but illustrates the point.

Another case where one might not be aware is when its always been that way. For instance, you might not realize for many years that you are color blind. Its only when some one else notices something you can not see do you know.

Ohhhhhh. I've been experiencing that for a while, varying degrees of mental silence. I thought my brain had malfunctioned and I've been trying to get the voices back. hahahaha. the irony! It first happened quite a few years ago, then came back online as I began to worry about what it meant. My brain has gone pretty silent again these days but I'm not euphoric like the first time so I figured it was another malfunction.

well, before I get too excited, what is a disembodied voice? like the voice in my head that sounds like me, but is carrying on a two sided conversation with itself sometimes?

also, is the idea to be paying attention to the internal state even during the rapids?

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes...adaption, that's it.

Australia, being the total 'nanny country' that it is, I'm exploring Darkroom Meditation to increase melatonin, holotropic breathwork and techniques to 'decalcify' my pineal gland....I listened to some binaural beats and isochronic tones and all that did, was make me sleepy. lol

I also worry that any 'new doorway' that leads to the infinite will end up with the same result, different means...maybe it's just a long phase, another 'Dark Night of the Soul' that will resolve itself with time.

Lol you don't have much of a choice. you either stick with what you have or attempt to find something new. you've already decided that what you have is not pleasing you like it once did. its fine to worry, but dont let it stop you, let it guide you forward because thats its divine purpose. worry that leads to caution, worry that leads to fear, paranoia, paralysis, is not divine worry. While on the topic, worry is just worry, it's how you shape your perspective to worry that matters. Worry is always going to be the same, but you will not, so you can change your relationship to worry but you can never change worry.

[Shivani Devi]

From what I have gathered (thanks to my Higher Self) all spiritual results are totally commensurate with the level of personal effort put in towards attaining and maintaining them.

It's like a person going to the gym...they go for a year or so, totally rip their muscles, build up the 'dream body' then happy with that, they quit the gym and within a few months, their muscles turn to flab and they need to start over again from scratch.

More results...more spiritual evolution requires more of a consistent effort in direct proportion and meditating/doing yoga twice a week and just 'keeping it up' for the sake of it, isn't going to cut it anymore.

Worry is just a stone's throw away from apprehension and 'apprehension' is the word that suits the scenario better than 'worry' because I'm not worried, really...just going through mental gymnastics which I know better than to go through.

I realise I must start with the physical body because I have been totally neglecting it.

A year ago, I suffered a total nervous breakdown (after I witnessed a stabbing, experienced a break-in and then totally lost faith in the future of mankind) and I was placed in a mental health facility for a month....a pretty nice mental health facility it was.

Whilst in there, I was placed upon an anti-depressant and I was on it for three months....over the course of those three months, I put on 20kg in weight and went from 60kg to 80 kg and I haven't lost it yet...if anything, it screwed with my liver, causing me to put on an extra 10kg in the intervening months until now...and currently, I sit at 90kg (164cms)...I'm obese, the added weight all of a sudden is putting painful pressure on my arthritic knees...I am lethargic, I have no energy and I cannot move...I went from a size 12 to a size 20 since last February, when I was admitted....so this is where I need to make a start.

I also need to make a post in the non-duality forum.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

From what I have gathered (thanks to my Higher Self) all spiritual results are totally commensurate with the level of personal effort put in towards attaining and maintaining them.

It's like a person going to the gym...they go for a year or so, totally rip their muscles, build up the 'dream body' then happy with that, they quit the gym and within a few months, their muscles turn to flab and they need to start over again from scratch.

More results...more spiritual evolution requires more of a consistent effort in direct proportion and meditating/doing yoga twice a week and just 'keeping it up' for the sake of it, isn't going to cut it anymore.

Worry is just a stone's throw away from apprehension and 'apprehension' is the word that suits the scenario better than 'worry' because I'm not worried, really...just going through mental gymnastics which I know better than to go through.

I realise I must start with the physical body because I have been totally neglecting it.

A year ago, I suffered a total nervous breakdown (after I witnessed a stabbing, experienced a break-in and then totally lost faith in the future of mankind) and I was placed in a mental health facility for a month....a pretty nice mental health facility it was.

Whilst in there, I was placed upon an anti-depressant and I was on it for three months....over the course of those three months, I put on 20kg in weight and went from 60kg to 80 kg and I haven't lost it yet...if anything, it screwed with my liver, causing me to put on an extra 10kg in the intervening months until now...and currently, I sit at 90kg (164cms)...I'm obese, the added weight all of a sudden is putting painful pressure on my arthritic knees...I am lethargic, I have no energy and I cannot move...I went from a size 12 to a size 20 since last February, when I was admitted....so this is where I need to make a start.

I also need to make a post in the non-duality forum.

maybe. they may come from past effort as well, example a past life that put in extreme effort. My gifts came to me out of the blue when I was 21 without conscious effort at all. There was higher self effort, or effort of some kind maybe a past life, but not from the egoic me of this lifetime. I've also read accounts of sages saying that spiritual gifts can come from 1. birth. 2. past life experiences. 3. extreme effort and devotion.

did the anti depressant help you in any beneficial ways?

I'm sorry to hear you have had a recent mental breakdown. They used to happen to me all the time.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

maybe. they may come from past effort as well, example a past life that put in extreme effort. My gifts came to me out of the blue when I was 21 without conscious effort at all. There was higher self effort, or effort of some kind maybe a past life, but not from the egoic me of this lifetime. I've also read accounts of sages saying that spiritual gifts can come from 1. birth. 2. past life experiences. 3. extreme effort and devotion.

did the anti depressant help you in any beneficial ways?

I'm sorry to hear you have had a recent mental breakdown. They used to happen to me all the time.

No, it didn't help me really and I was only taking them because the doctors said it would help, but after 3 months and 20kg heavier, I tossed them in the trash bin and haven't taken any psych meds since.

There is also a point, I gather at which one's 'good karmic bank-balance' runs out and starts to go into the red...from then on, it becomes a 'pay as you grow' scenario and I think this is what is happening to me right now.

[shivatar]

That's how cycles go. the high never lasts, it is always met by its equal opposite.

if you are in the slums now just think about the heaven that is waiting for you and work towards it.

work is painful, so by working you can bring heaven closer to you in an active way. work is like the ultimate karmic good deed, it's consciously choosing pain that will benefit us at a later date.

its like if you choose pain via work you are bringing good karma later down the road. if you are choosing enjoyment via what you've gained, you are bringing pain to yourself down the road (because what goes up must come down).

if we dont attach then we can evade the cycle in some way or another. we are still gong up and down, but there is an enjoyment of down as much as up and up as much as down.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

That's how cycles go. the high never lasts, it is always met by its equal opposite.

if you are in the slums now just think about the heaven that is waiting for you and work towards it.

work is painful, so by working you can bring heaven closer to you in an active way. work is like the ultimate karmic good deed, it's consciously choosing pain that will benefit us at a later date.

its like if you choose pain via work you are bringing good karma later down the road. if you are choosing enjoyment via what you've gained, you are bringing pain to yourself down the road (because what goes up must come down).

if we dont attach then we can evade the cycle in some way or another. we are still gong up and down, but there is an enjoyment of down as much as up and up as much as down.

I agree with you.

Try as hard as I have to 'detach' myself from it, via way of ego, that's also only a means unto an end, because that which ye resist, persists...as it goes.

From everything I have read on the net last night about 'overcoming spiritual boredom' it's something that needs to be 'worked through' and not discarded as another aspect of Maya by negating it due to some supra-mental causation.

I'm at the stage of; "is this IT? if so, it's pretty lame to be IT" and meanwhile, Shiva is doing that thing "yeah, come back when you've decided to stop goofing off and you're take the whole thing seriously again...I ain't going anywhere". Meanwhile, I'm saying "thanks Enki...I'll bear that in mind".

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I agree with you.

Try as hard as I have to 'detach' myself from it, via way of ego, that's also only a means unto an end, because that which ye resist, persists...as it goes.

From everything I have read on the net last night about 'overcoming spiritual boredom' it's something that needs to be 'worked through' and not discarded as another aspect of Maya by negating it due to some supra-mental causation.

I'm at the stage of; "is this IT? if so, it's pretty lame to be IT" and meanwhile, Shiva is doing that thing "yeah, come back when you've decided to stop goofing off and you're take the whole thing seriously again...I ain't going anywhere". Meanwhile, I'm saying "thanks Enki...I'll bear that in mind".

just live, dont try to do anything. letting go is the easiest thing you can do. its the essence of relaxation and laziness lol.

dont 'detatch' like its an effort, just let go of all caring. have faith that your inner faculties will carry on without the controlling ego. besides, how much of your existence have you truly been in control of?

by the way, your ego may say "don't let go!! that is destructive". but its really not, and you will find that out when you try it. Sure you may stumble and fall down, but your body can heal itself, and you are not limited to your body are you? so what does the safety of the body matter in the grand scheme of things? The egos job (which is keeping the body safe) is of secondary importance in life. the number 1 thing to do in life is enjoy life. so seek to do that.


letting go and detachment is a temporary cure. Once we have enough distance from the ego we can stop doing that and begin to enjoy life through living it. detachment kind of puts a damper on life, but its good for getting some distance from the ego. maybe im doing detatchment wrong or have the western definition for the word, idk. not well versed on the eastern meaning of detatchment but I hear its a little different.

little to zero. its the ego that convinces you, through fear, that you need its help. truth is you dont.


I haven't talked to Shiva in a while. He pops up from time to time but eh, I'm exploring different things right now. Mostly exploring the absence of things. I feel like I am lost in a haze a lot of the time. Time seems to go by SO FAST for me. Months and years just fly by lol.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

just live, dont try to do anything. letting go is the easiest thing you can do. its the essence of relaxation and laziness lol.

dont 'detatch' like its an effort, just let go of all caring. have faith that your inner faculties will carry on without the controlling ego. besides, how much of your existence have you truly been in control of?

little to zero. its the ego that convinces you, through fear, that you need its help. truth is you dont.


I haven't talked to Shiva in a while. He pops up from time to time but eh, I'm exploring different things right now. Mostly exploring the absence of things. I feel like I am lost in a haze a lot of the time. Time seems to go by SO FAST for me. Months and years just fly by lol.

If I 'just live', Shivatar, what is it that separates me from other non-realised beings who do likewise? Surely there must be some mindful (or mindless) aberrations involved in there, somewhere...but it is like I am caught literally between the devil and the deep blue sea....too spiritually immature to 'go forward' and yet, too experienced to 'go back'.

Without the ego, I'm just a shell of a creature going through the motions of existence with little to no care because nothing can affect my undifferentiated consciousness...not even the unmitigated love-bliss of the absolute reality, it seems.

So now, I'm just like 'bring death on' but they say if you are still alive, your work here isn't over, so just 'letting time pass' even IF I had any 'control' over it (which I also realise I do not) is just futile anyway.

Is it only myself (ego) that has experienced this? I realise, by now that I have no other purpose and yet, enlightenment has been attained, but liberation (Moksha) has not.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If I 'just live', Shivatar, what is it that separates me from other non-realised beings who do likewise? Surely there must be some mindful (or mindless) aberrations involved in there, somewhere...but it is like I am caught literally between the devil and the deep blue sea....too spiritually immature to 'go forward' and yet, too experienced to 'go back'.

Without the ego, I'm just a shell of a creature going through the motions of existence with little to no care because nothing can affect my undifferentiated consciousness...not even the unmitigated love-bliss of the absolute reality, it seems.

So now, I'm just like 'bring death on' but they say if you are still alive, your work here isn't over, so just 'letting time pass' even IF I had any 'control' over it (which I also realise I do not) is just futile anyway.

Is it only myself (ego) that has experienced this? I realise, by now that I have no other purpose and yet, enlightenment has been attained, but liberation (Moksha) has not.

What do you think is so great about the ego? you barely know what it is. you only know that it feels like who you are. whats so special about that feeling?

Why care about being separate from other people? or similar to the high minded sages?

why do you care about anything so trivial? or do you care at all, maybe just the ego cares. and fears it is being shed, so it puts up a fight saying this and that is of utmost importance.

it is challenging you. will you challenge it or be over-run?