Is This Reality Perfect?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by lemex

I have to agree I'm not seeing what others are seeing either. I agree there is a plan or direction and that's all we can say about it. How in world are people able to say without a bad thing we cannot know good. Personally I've never understood this thought. What people seem to be saying about the physical is the ends justify the means. God had no right to create suffering in any case.

buying the idea you have a right to get what you want, is the same as selling the opportunity to learn why you don't.

[neil]

Originally Posted by lemex

. God had no right to create suffering in any case.

Someone believing or saying that god created suffering. .....is ridiculous, & a misunderstanding of the love that this universe was created of and in by god creator....

God created the free Ness to possess & express free will.....but god creator, did not create suffering and did not sanction suffering...and it is up to each individual to express their free will in a loving manner so as to not create emotional pain for self or others.....and it is also necessary for a nervous system to feel physical pain.....and it is also up to every individual to not create physical pain for self and others.

Emotional suffering is a by product of expressing unloving thoughts and acts on self and others, through our free will.....and free will is a necessity for each individual of this universe of love to exist and to create their own choices of how they do choose to live...and if they choose love over unlovingness then all is smooth sailing for one and all.

....Without our having free will, someone else would have to choose for us, how we think, act & live.....and that is not the way this universe of love was designed and constructed....WE NEED "FREE WILL" TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL, WHOM CAN CREATE FREELY AND LOVINGLY....BUT UN FORTUNEATLY SOME INDIVIDUALS CREATE UNLOVINGNESS WHICH IS OUT OF HARMONY WITH GOD CREATORS WAY OF LOVE.

And why do loads of people act un lovingly. ...well if you could see with your eyes, the untold amounts of dark spiritual beings that have missed the mark of love.. (sinning)..and influencing earthlings into performing unloving acts, well then you would understand "why" the thought that god is "responsible for mankinds mess" IS RIDICULOUS.

God did not create unlovingness nor does god sanction unlovingness.....this universe was created perfect...and could be perfect but this universe has and is being treated un lovingly by untold individuals who are acting out of harmony with god creators wonderful way of love.

Regards neil.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistant one."
Einstein

Citation required. (not false quotes on Google)

"Death is only an experience through which you are meant to learn a great lesson.
You cannot die"
Yogananda

Regarding this temporary and material reality, here is a question to ponder...
In the Bible, in the Book of Revelation, chapter 12,
who are the "stars" cited, who are flung to the earth by the tail of the dragon?
And, who is the dragon?

And then, who are we, really?

[lemex]

Originally Posted by neil

.....and it is also necessary for a nervous system to feel physical pain.....and it is also up to every individual to not create physical pain for self and others.

This is really a powerful thing to see and touch on and wonder, maybe it goes a little deeper. The nervous system is probably much deeper in the quality in understanding, and it sees both the abstract and physical. Emotional and physical pain use the same areas (in the brain) and thus see. Do people have knowledge and insight and don't know it.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

buying the idea you have a right to get what you want, is the same as selling the opportunity to learn why you don't.

Thank you for your thoughts. I know I have a simple and emotional view on this, and yes, I'd have included at least one different communication way if I had had input into this. I guess for me it's a different sight such as feeling I don't need to experience some things to get some idea it's not the way say a fight. I'm probably too sensitive a person inside. There are just many things that need to be better before perfection. Do we already have knowledge? Perfection cannot be reached any other way? My question is from what I feel and observe in the world and are we suppose to see first. Is it important to see when perfection is not perfection?

Actually I think I've learned all I need to and don't need to return. I have no need to. If experience is a teacher I've learned. Is the physical spiritual?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I am practically always impressed by the clarity-anI-warmth quality of yer chooglin', 7L.

Am most appreciative and grateful for your presence - which adds immensely to my experience of Love and Joy in this often upside-down world!

Hello there DavidSun and thanks so much for the kind words.
I hope, as always, that folks understand for themselves that cynicism is misdirection and meaninglessness is among the greatest of illusions, like the illusion of separation.

There is no such thing as a meaningless exchange or communication or relationship or existence. We are all sacred, holy, unique, and worthy, body and soul, heart and mind. It is rather only a limited or un(der)developed state of consciousness that seems to perceive or confirm the belief in our meaninglessness, our disposability or interchangeability, and/or that our worth is soley based on our utility value in various situations. Great lies, one and all.

This belief in our supposed meaninglessness is actively constructed, promoted, and reinforced by the intentional superficiality, the intentional injustices, and the intentional misdirection of this reality.

I see it all as one of many pervasive and toxic aspects of our disposable, utilitarian mainstream culture...a culture which seeks to undermine the well-being and the self-worth of the individual and to blatantly exploit and prey on the vulnerable and the low, i.e., the meek in spirit.

And I seek to counter that toxic perspective wherever I can, with whatever small thing I can do or say.

Peace & blessings
7L

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

And I seek to counter that toxic perspective wherever I can, with whatever small thing I can do or say.

WOOHOO!

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

the vulnerable and the low, i.e., the meek in spirit.

Hi there 7L

I believe meek in spirit = the sublime humility and gentleness of Light souls

BT

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello there DavidSun and thanks so much for the kind words.
... Peace & blessings
7L

I don't quite know how to get this across to you, 7L.

I think, maybe, you interpret and receive what I say youward as my being 'kind' in relation to you because you are such a super-kindhearted sweetie (among other things).

And I am certainly glad that you experience my response(s) as a 'blessing' because that is certainly part of what I wish youward (as well as in relation to any readers of the/our ongoing conversation).

But I don't think you are 'getting' me (that is, if that's all that your are 'getting' from me).

I just wish to clarify that I ex-peeriience you as a vital/adept/powerful/thank-God-she's-here teammate in what I 'see' and 'feel' is a very desirable and much needed LIFE-FLOW breakthrough of unadulterated/unsentimental (i.e. really loving) TRUTH which is in very short supply these days.

As such I hope you some degree at least ex-peer-ience' receive' what I ideationally and emotionally verbally relate as being, or at least intended to be, of the same kind (i.e. 'nature') as the active contributions and verbal reinforcements of a fellow foot soldier, general, medical doctor or front-line nurse would be ex-peer-ienced by by a fellow foot soldier, general, medical doctor or frontline nurse.

'Kindness' (as the word is normally used) towards you has nothing whatsoever to do with my motivation in relation to and association with you, in other words.

Also, personal 'thanks' in said regard are not something I (can) really relate to - I would have the same 'Huh, what's that non-sequitor about'? response as I would if someone 'thanked' me for being 'me'.

All in the service of authenticity (authentic LIFE). OK?

OOORAH!, dedicated (to LIFE's renaissance) WOMAN!

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I don't quite know how to get this across to you, 7L.

I think, maybe, you interpret and receive what I say youward as my being 'kind' in relation to you because you are such a super-kindhearted sweetie (among other things).

And I am certainly glad that you experience my response(s) as a 'blessing' because that is certainly part of what I wish youward (as well as in relation to any readers of the/our ongoing conversation).

But I don't think you are 'getting' me (that is, if that's all that your are 'getting' from me).

I just wish to clarify that I ex-peeriience you as a vital/adept/powerful/thank-God-she's-here teammate in what I 'see' and 'feel' is a very desirable and much needed LIFE-FLOW breakthrough of unadulterated/unsentimental (i.e. really loving) TRUTH which is in very short supply these days.

As such I hope you some degree at least ex-peer-ience' receive' what I ideationally and emotionally verbally relate as being, or at least intended to be, of the same kind (i.e. 'nature') as the active contributions and verbal reinforcements of a fellow foot soldier, general, medical doctor or front-line nurse would be ex-peer-ienced by by a fellow foot soldier, general, medical doctor or frontline nurse.

'Kindness' (as the word is normally used) towards you has nothing whatsoever to do with my motivation in relation to and association with you, in other words.

Also, personal 'thanks' in said regard are not something I (can) really relate to - I would have the same 'Huh, what's that non-sequitor about'? response as I would if someone 'thanked' me for being 'me'.

All in the service of authenticity (authentic LIFE). OK?

OOORAH!, dedicated (to LIFE's renaissance) WOMAN!

Davidsun, I do appreciate and acknowledge the importance of affirmation and support on our respective journeys.

I agree that the apprehension of equanimity requires a level of awareness of interbeing / mutual responsiblity / ownership that is difficult for many to apprehend or bear.

Most begin looking to lovingkindness and then realise we are not meant to tolerate or accept all intentions, thoughts, words, and deeds as equal. Some are caustic, destructive, hateful, exploitative, and deeply misaligned.

This is where equanimity and its various aspects or corollaries of strength, courage, discipline, integrity, and notions of interbeing/collective responsibility/individual ownership come into play.

Without equanimity, we (as humanity) find we cannot invidividually NOR collectivley progress in lovingkindness beyond a certain point. But how long we walk or wander until we each come to this realisation varies.

I think some are consciously choosing to linger in the lassitude or shallows of lovingkindness, even whilst they have already begun to desperately require the strength and discipline of equanimity to further deepen their lovingkindness.

And on the upside, some are building their strength whilst preparing for the deeper forays into equanimity and THUS deeper forays into lovingkindness, both.

I think this part of the journey requires great strength and great generosity of heart, both. Until folks open to grace and to receiving love and faith (awe), they have not yet begun to walk their paths consciously. Though some may have done a fair bit of preparation to get to that point.

Once we begin to walk our paths consciously, we become better attuned to the balance of lovingkindness and equanimity needed for each of us personally to heal and grow. This itself is a learning process which can take years.

All of it requires patience and forbearance, along with clearly setting your boundaries, which in fact is an act of lovingkindness for both self and others, whether they realise it right now or not. Not everyone will get you right here and right now but regardless you have the right to say this is where I'm at and btw this is my line in the sand -- which I would likewise honour with you and offer to you. For example, if my line in the sand is courtesy and respect and personal kindness from others, I would always offer these to others, as well.

One day, some of those same folks who are indignant about you say voicing your right not to accept or tolerate certain behaviour (by choice) will say, I honour and respect your request and BTW I agree and do likewise myself!

At some point on their journey, many will say oh this is what those folks meant by needing equanimity in order to expand and deepen lovingkindness. Or...this is the critical importance, the centrality, of ownership and of repentance & making amends, or of offering forgiveness, on my own spiritual path.

It's all about being true to centre and to living in alignment with authentic love toward self and others. Because many others don't yet do that, nor strive to do that, nor yet clearly apprehend what that is, some will misunderstand when others speak of the necessity of ownership, integrity, courage, and discipline to deepening and expanding lovingkindness. Or, to living in alignment with authentic love for both self and others.

I think it can be helpful to try to remember that for many, they've only just begun to find their feet. Or, rather, they've only just begun to clearly accept that it's on them to do so and that no one is going to walk their journey for them, nor make the tough choices.

So for many, the way forward still appears unclear, inchoate or unformed, obscured and obstructed. Until such time as they decide that they matter, and their choices matter -- all of them, big and small -- and that they want to close their integrity gap, between who they are in truth and who they are "day to day", on the ground.

Peace & blessings amigo
7L