Weakness in Faith

Hello all,

I used to be agnostic but started believing in God after what I termed as a "spiritual experience" happened to me. Thing is there is a possibility it could just have been a psychotic experience but I didn't think so at the time. It took the form of a voice speaking inside my head.

Anyway, this turned me onto a spiritual path and led me to believe in an all loving unlimited God who wants to experience all forms of existence including a limited one so he created this world of duality. There are other concepts but one of the main ones was that God does not change this world of ours. So, I believe creation, evolution etc. all happened naturally. I'm still not sure of this as I see design as a big argument for God but then think science has it right and all this came by chance. I don't have the knowledge to analyse this data myself.

The problem with this view as you may guess, especially after reading a lot of scientific articles on skeptic sites, is that it sort of invalidates the need for a God. I have no reason to believe in a God other than my need for belief...it is something that gives me peace of mind since then I can believe consciousness is eternal. Is anyone else out there ever have/having similar thoughts and how do you deal with it?

[Xiomara]

Max Planck said:
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science aew written the words:"Ye must have faith."
For me,over-intelectualizing or following blind faith are the real problems,one can easily get lost.
In ancient Mesoamerican culture there was something like a cult to the Paradox,which was viewed as the true Reality,what is relative is absolute and vice versa.
"yuh quimati noyollo"-that was their expression when they wanted to say the word belief,or faith,which means-thus knows my heart.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I realize I have nothing solid to back up my belief. It's is more of an intuitive feeling that there is something out there. My faith is based on my need to believe in an eternal consciousness. I have various concepts of the nature of God but they are all essentially pulled out of my butt or agreement with texts I've read. The need for an eternal consciousness may be related to a fear of death but I KNOW i dont fear death. I look forward to it as the beginning of another journey.

[Xiomara]

I'm trying to say that you don't have to back up your belief with a proof,it's enough to follow what your inner voice tells you.Same as death-science say it's the end of consciousness,yet you know it's not.We don't need to separate our eternal consciousness from god's one.After years of reading and thinking,i came to the conclusion that our Truth is inside our hearts,our God also.Science or spiritual teachings can help us,but in the end of the day who has seen or talked to God,we work with a mere mind concept.Yet i believe that we all have the Divine Spark inside us,we carry the Divine within us,and that is the only accessible kingdom of god,at least while we're on this planet.
Science invalidates the need for god,and faith invalidates the need for proof.
I think neither is right,if we learn to unite things instead of puuting them in opposition,then we will be able to reach further.
Why not just follow your own path and take from science and religion what you feel right.

I guess you are right. Science can give us an explanation for a material world but not for a spiritual one. Maybe I was just giving too much credence to my doubts. In the end, no one knows and is free to choose. Skeptics have pretty much closed their minds to the concept of god without proof and believers have closed their mind to a world without god.

Reminds me of a recent situation where I posted a thought experiment on athiestforums.org requiring one to temporarily pretend to accept god exists to consider another idea, and practically no one there was willing to even take that first step.

[Xiomara]

You know,my uncle is a physicist,and he admits that science lacks something very fundamental,the other side,the spiritual one,so its explanations are incomplete,and considering the semiclassical approximation that physics uses,it's very likely that the things science accept as impossible,in fact could turn out to be very real.He also admits that scientists don't know much,albeit it seems the opposite.On the other hand,the clergy say religion has all the answers.Skeptics are like spectators,and they deny almost anything.
Apparently,Truth is beyond them all,and at the same time scientists,sceptics and spiritual people have pieces of it.And i think it's up to each of us to assemble the jigsaw puzzle.

Perhaps. But I doubt we will ever have a truly unified Theory of Everything. At least, not while we exist in the dual world. The non-dual world is currently merely a concept for most except those who claim to have experienced God. I find it interesting that all who claim to have had a non-dual experience in this life always accept the idea of a God.

Whatever science you believe in or accept as fact, whatever God image you can up with, it's a fact that whatever's behind the universe, life and everything, is beyond human comprehension no matter how anyone pretends it isn't. It's not possible to conceive when time wasn't nor the extent of infinity, outside of mathematics. So if someone wants to call the Originator, whatever it is and was offset against "God" (or any other word) why not?

♀

See, I'm not so certain that God is beyond human comprehension. For 99% of the world, yes it is. But we hear about a few people who claim to have "experienced" God. They could just be lying or mistaken ofcourse. But until I have that experience myself I will hold off judgement. And this is one of my primary goals in life ---- to experience God. I don't think there is any specific path to undertake to guarantee this other than being open to the idea so it may or may not happen in my life. But I'm willing to wait and see.

[Xiomara]

For me non-dual is when the polarities are united,what is known as Coincidencia Oppositorum.Yet,if the opposities were in absolute balance,the result would be stasis,so in my view,the Divine,the Pleroma,is where/when one of the pair is not stronger or bigger than the other,so that movement occur,but is more active.People have problems with balance and polarities,because they tend to see the polarities as contradictions,which is maybe the real issue with what we call a dual world.So,when we pass beyond the mind pattern of "versus" and "or",and use instead of these "with",and when we remember that Harmony is in fact daughter of Mars and Venus,maybe we will be much closer to the state of non-duality.