God’s hatred

[innerlight]

If your religion teaches you that God hates, or you must hate because of it.. You are doing it completely wrong.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Busby

Following this thread is once again the proof I need to state, once again, that this book which we call the Bible is completely confusing. As it is supposed to be God's work and therefore to be relied on we can rightly complain of its failure when each of us, due to the book's vagueness and contradictions have a different concept of what (so-called) truth is.

Anyway, this thread did actually start with the point being made that God sent us his only (begotten) son to save us.

So what. After Jesus had 'died' on the cross he joined his father in heaven - maybe he didn't have forty virgins to enjoy but presumably heaven is pleasant to an utmost degree - a nice reward for a few hours of pain on the cross (the same pain being shared with the two thieves on either side of him). This pain is nothing compared to the physical and mental pain millions of people have had to put up with over the past 2000 years. Quite a lot of it caused by 'differences of opinion'. These deaths (which have taken many forms) if valued by pain intensity or length would suggest to me that these millions of
persecuted people deserve a much better position in heaven than Jesus. They really have earned it.

Objectivity is something that is hard to come by, not easy to maintain. Because, we are not God, in this evolved organic situation, in time and space.

Our natural carnal situation in "the world", is subjectivity.
But, what if you were always in union with the Almighty, and suddenly separated from Him?

And, why don't you see the whole picture, Busby?
Because you are thinking linearly, and in subjective manner Busby.
What did the Buddha tell you is the cause of all pain, in, "the world"?
We are.

What was the cause of Christ's suffering?
We are.
You are.
For your sake He suffered on the cross.
Which, btw, was prophesied apart from time, and through the ages of the writings.
You're responsible.

He came, and suffered and died for the lost and wandering sheep. Many of whom don't know that they're lost, and who think they are home, "here".

The oblivious.

[SpiritofZoe]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I would just like to share my view on this (as an ex christian). If Christianity is your religion and you hold that belief that is fine, but I fail to understand how Christians often speak or see things the way they do. So many contradictions....

"Thou shalt not kill".....please read the old testament. (God should lead by example then surely )
God is all about love.....again, please read the old testament (Wrath and vengeance)
"Incest is a sin"....Please read the old testament

The list goes on....I have heard so many times by Christians "You have to accept to understand" or "It is not meant that way"...

As I have said before in similar threads on this subject I do not understand how a religion can take a stance of acceptance and love when it has the opinion it has on Same sex couples etc.

I said before, I am going to hell apparently because I live "in sin" with my future husband. It doesn't matter that I am a good person.....

It is not what I believe at all... but each to their own so if this is your following I wish you well.

I noticed what a strange comment this was and just hhad to post - you say you don't understand Christians... and yet all of your examples say "please read the OLD testament."
What makes a person Christian is their belief in the NEW Testament. It tells of a New Covenant that replaces the Covenant such as that of Moses in the Old Testament.
And ya there is a whole lotta killin in the OLD testament, from warring that was not condoned, to warring as instructed to kill off enemies- this was because those enemies were Baal worshippers and actually hosted demonic spirits, but this proved to be too esoteric for the people of the 12 tribes to understand, as well as some instructions to use stoning to death as punishment. Yes lots of contradictions, but there are reasons for all those things and answers to the questions that would come up if you wanted to study it more in depth.
If you did experiment with Christianity, you might also find out that very few Christians believe living with your boyfriend is sin, and many do believe same-sex relationships are equal in all ways to hetero relationships, so those examples really don't add up to understanding what Christianity is.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky123

This is what you believe Theo but I don't. I don't deserve Gods wrath, I have never sinned and Jesus did not die to save me.

You have every right to believe this as I have the right to disbelieve it, ok.... When you post these so called teachings inspired by God i'ts best not to lablel everyone the same, they are your beliefs but not everyone elses.

whether you are right or wrong I can't judge, but I will say that just randomly assuming you are pure and somehow beyond the problems others have just to make yourself feel good seems somewhat presumptuous to me.

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

whether you are right or wrong I can't judge, but I will say that just randomly assuming you are pure and somehow beyond the problems others have just to make yourself feel good seems somewhat presumptuous to me.

Yes.... your thoughts create your reality...

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Objectivity is something that is hard to come by, not easy to maintain. Because, we are not God, in this evolved organic situation, in time and space.

Our natural carnal situation in "the world", is subjectivity.
But, what if you were always in union with the Almighty, and suddenly separated from Him?

And, why don't you see the whole picture, Busby?
Because you are thinking linearly, and in subjective manner Busby.
What did the Buddha tell you is the cause of all pain, in, "the world"?
We are.

What was the cause of Christ's suffering?
We are.
You are.
For your sake He suffered on the cross.
Which, btw, was prophesied apart from time, and through the ages of the writings.
You're responsible.

He came, and suffered and died for the lost and wandering sheep. Many of whom don't know that they're lost, and who think they are home, "here".

The oblivious.

It took a little while until I came across this thread again, excuse the lateness of my response.

Actually the whole problem of Christianity's dilemma has always been of a great interest to me. Nor do I think that objectivity fails me. Rather the opposite as I have to quickly say that many 'parts' of the Bible show that there were hardly intellects as we understand them today behind the biblical reports. Had god been objective he wouldn't have, for instance, drowned millions of people in the so-called great flood. I don't need to tell you the story.

Firstly I have to say that I don't think that Jesus died on the cross for me or mine. Were it to be so, well, I didn't request it so it's out of my hands.

Your gentle assertion that I don't see the whole picture I could easily say about you.

As for me being the cause of pain, in the sense which you mean, I can accept. But there's not really any other choice is there! As to responsibility no one knows better or can see objectively how actions turn into causes than I have seen in my personal life.

IMO we, mankind, are part of a mental evolution which we can only master by experience. We are indeed wandering sheep but we need knowledge not faith.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Busby

It took a little while until I came across this thread again, excuse the lateness of my response.

Actually the whole problem of Christianity's dilemma has always been of a great interest to me. Nor do I think that objectivity fails me. Rather the opposite as I have to quickly say that many 'parts' of the Bible show that there were hardly intellects as we understand them today behind the biblical reports. Had god been objective he wouldn't have, for instance, drowned millions of people in the so-called great flood. I don't need to tell you the story.

Firstly I have to say that I don't think that Jesus died on the cross for me or mine. Were it to be so, well, I didn't request it so it's out of my hands.

Your gentle assertion that I don't see the whole picture I could easily say about you.

As for me being the cause of pain, in the sense which you mean, I can accept. But there's not really any other choice is there! As to responsibility no one knows better or can see objectively how actions turn into causes than I have seen in my personal life.

IMO we, mankind, are part of a mental evolution which we can only master by experience. We are indeed wandering sheep but we need knowledge not faith.

' What did the Buddha tell you is the cause of all pain, in, "the world"?
We are.'


Can you point out please the Sutta/Sutra which contains this teaching?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Busby

It took a little while until I came across this thread again, excuse the lateness of my response.

Actually the whole problem of Christianity's dilemma has always been of a great interest to me. Nor do I think that objectivity fails me. Rather the opposite as I have to quickly say that many 'parts' of the Bible show that there were hardly intellects as we understand them today behind the biblical reports. Had god been objective he wouldn't have, for instance, drowned millions of people in the so-called great flood. I don't need to tell you the story.

Firstly I have to say that I don't think that Jesus died on the cross for me or mine. Were it to be so, well, I didn't request it so it's out of my hands.

Your gentle assertion that I don't see the whole picture I could easily say about you.

As for me being the cause of pain, in the sense which you mean, I can accept. But there's not really any other choice is there! As to responsibility no one knows better or can see objectively how actions turn into causes than I have seen in my personal life.

IMO we, mankind, are part of a mental evolution which we can only master by experience. We are indeed wandering sheep but we need knowledge not faith.

' Firstly I have to say that I don't think that Jesus died on the cross for me or mine. Were it to be so, well, I didn't request it so it's out of my hands.'



Exactly how I feel. Nobody died for my sins, my wrongdoings are my responsibility and mine alone.

[happy soul]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes.... your thoughts create your reality...

Something else, maybe even more to the point: Our LOVE (or lack of it) creates our reality.

The idea is that our LOVING THOUGHTS create positive experience; our UNLOVING THOUGHTS create negative experience.

So yes, our thoughts create our reality - and every thought (every choice) is either born of love, or lack of love (fear).

[Zeke55]

Originally Posted by theophilus

A lot is said about God’s love. It is the topic of the most well-known verse in the Bible.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 ESV

But how often have you heard anyone say anything about God’s hatred? Some people believe that God never hates anyone or anything because they believe all hatred is wrong and God never sins. Here is what the Bible says about that.

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven . . . a time to love, and a time to hate.
Ecclesiates 3:1,8 ESV

When we hate our hatred is usually sinful because we seldom know when hatred is called for. (Our love can also be sinful. We love something that God has told us we shouldn’t love or we love one thing more than another when we should love the second thing more.) God always knows when it is the proper time to love or hate.

Here are some of the things God hates.

There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.
Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV

We can summarize this by saying that God hates sin. That is bad news for us because all of us have sinned. God can’t simply overlook sin because it defiles his creation and he must remove it in order to restore creation to its original state of perfection.

Yet God loves humans because we were made in God’s image and he has made a way to remove our sin. He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die as a sacrifice to atone for our sins. Christ’s resurrection proves that God has accepted his sacrifice.

God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8 ESV

If we respond to God’s love by repenting of our sins and placing our faith in Christ we will experience an eternity of happiness and fellowship with God. If we reject God’s love we become subject to God’s hate and can only look forward to an eternity of suffering in Hell.

The New Testament word translated Hell is Gehenna. This was the name of a valley outside of Jerusalem where the city’s garbage was taken to be burned. This illustrates the function of Hell. It is where all the moral garbage of creation is taken to be destroyed.

We deserve God’s hatred because of the way we live. His love arises from his nature and isn’t something we deserve.

In order to understand God we must be aware of both his love and his hatred. Some people think only of his love and this makes them believe that there is no danger that they will be judged for their sins. Others focus on his hatred of sin and this leads them to try to live a good enough life to appease it. Both of these errors will keep us from being forgiven and experiencing eternal life.

Since there is another options called the more excellent way that follows the two commandments based on it, plus the trap of judging God and man by appearances is the warning to be amoral concerning what we see, not that we have no standards or moral compass, seeing good in evil and evil in good takes our ability to categorized the worlds behavior in dualism , seeing with the eye looking inwardly to see why were still seeing evil outwardly is the root of all evil were still reflecting.

Every story in the scripture must be seen as one body, have you hated your behavior? That's not a thunder god outside hating you, your a child of the living God, and learn to hate what the Father does because it prevents living fully in His/her Presence. But that's a Paradox of learning were that missing the more excellent mark is being housed, with free room and board it's reluctant to stay away so stop pointing at the innocent and blaming your helpmate outside you, Tamar may look like a harlot but she is hiding her secrets by that "appearance" Genesis 38:

The whole biblical motif is precepts on the creation of man into the image of God, It starts in appearances then goes into dark sayings when the maturity is quickening, parable, allegory, figurative, etc. Applied to good and evil thought sand box, a riddle in dreams times and seasons which is the reason for the cry to awake, then the light source will clothes are hidden darkness.