Kundalini & Chakras

[Shivani Devi]

I am finding Princess of Mahakala's knowledge about the different schools of Shaivism to be quite informative and comprehensive.

It is actually very refreshing for me, after what has transpired over the past few days on here...I felt bogged down always having to "dumb things down".

I am a Shaivite myself, but I am not really pinned down to any one school, however, because my initial introduction to Shaivism was very "mainstream", I will always have a nostalgic preference for the whole Dualistic, Puranic Sāṃkhya Shaivite philosophy as the most popular version among the Bhakta persuasion...in that regard, the Vishistadvaita application of Pashupata Shaivism (Lakulisha Shaivism) comes closest and is also a nostalgic representation of the Indus Valley Civilization...however, I also feel close to the Tamil Nayanars (Sambandhar, Basavanna, Allama Prabhu etc) but I digress.

I have studied Abhinavagupta's Tantraloka and the Yoga Kundali Upanishad (I don't know who wrote that) and the whole notion of Kundalini was codified for the practitioners of Yoga (in general) back in the 14th century by Swami Svatmarama when he composed the Hatha Yoga Pradipika.

I have also studied the Vignana Bhairava Tantra and I believe Matsyendranath (of the Nath tradition) composed that one and I have studied Arthur Avalon's/Sir John Woodroffe's books "The Serpent Power" and "Shakta and Shakti" but I never read "A Garland of Letters" because I went on to study the Mahanirvana Tantra instead...which was also an offshoot of "The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation" in much the same way as the Radiance Sutras are a spin off of the VBT..

Yes, according to Tantra..and especially the Sri Vidya, Kundalini is Bindu and there is a reason why I have the Sri Yantra as my avatar...because all of the tattwas can be traced back through and to a single point of origin..however, the mathematical permutations through all 11 dimensions are mind blowing...tetryonics:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sri+...SgmcVDuZ1Pg4PM

Yes, I don't know about others, but my Kundalini awakening was precisely how Princess described it...like dying while awake...like one of those NDEs that Shamans have which lead them to commune with the spirit world....like a scene out of "Flatliners"...heart and breath slows down to being almost imperceptible, brain activity becomes negligible and you think "this is it then... goodbye cruel world..." at first I really became freaked out by it but now, as you ALL know, when Shakti is doing her thing, the best thing you CAN do is not to resist... resistance is futile anyway, but the ego still tries to hold on, to keep consciousness established in the third dimension instead of letting the spirit break free of any confines the mind sets for it ..and this can be as scary as hell.

I am also joyous that someone on here is finally using Sanskrit terminology that I can understand...I have been waiting for another to understand what I mean when I break into Sanskrit mid sentence because I can't find any English equivalent and it seems I may have finally met my match...but only time will tell.

[Unseeking Seeker]

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@ Shivani ... lol guess we will leave it to the two of you then. I’ve also browsed through some texts here & there but prefer to allow the Universe to reveal as of Its will directly.

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[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

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@ Shivani ... lol guess we will leave it to the two of you then. I’ve also browsed through some texts here & there but prefer to allow the a Universe to reveal as of Its will directly.

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It is fine, love.

I have been waiting for someone who is on the same page and intellectual wavelength I am on for years! and I honestly look forward to a very high academic exchange on the nature of Shaivism and Kundalini from another Shaivite...it is like an awesome "Christmas present" for me because I feel that I need this level of engagement and stimulation at this point in time...and you know me well enough to also know that I would be chomping at the bit here. LOL

I just hope that Princess of Mahakala is up to the challenge because I know I am...bring it home to me, sweetheart.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It is fine, love.

I have been waiting for someone who is on the same page and intellectual wavelength I am on for years! and I honestly look forward to a very high academic exchange on the nature of Shaivism and Kundalini from another Shaivite...it is like an awesome "Christmas present" for me because I feel that I need this level of engagement and stimulation at this point in time...and you know me well enough to also know that I would be chomping at the bit here. LOL

I just hope that Princess of Mahakala is up to the challenge because I know I am...bring it home to me, sweetheart.

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And of course, needless to mention, we all benefit from the dialogue

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[jonesboy]

I would agree that kundalini is really Universal Mind.

I would disagree that when one awakes kundalini that it is some scary thing. Maybe for some but for most it is really just the awakening to energy.

I would say that the end states of Advaita Vedanta and Kashmir Shaivism are much different.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would agree that kundalini is really Universal Mind.

I would disagree that when one awakes kundalini that it is some scary thing. Maybe for some but for most it is really just the awakening to energy.

I would say that the end states of Advaita Vedanta and Kashmir Shaivism are much different.

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We are not the doer
Divine being the mover
What end state ...
No end ... no checkmate

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[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

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We are not the doer
Divine being the mover
What end state ...
No end ... no checkmate

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That is a very limited view.

In AV the world is an illusion. In KS it is not.

In AV all there is, is Brahma, in KS we are all jivas that can become One like Siva.

Much different.. While I agree there is always more room to grow depending one ones view or goal.. one can think they have reached it much sooner that what is really possible.

Here is a great site with lot's of research on various traditions.

Here is a nice comparison of the two we have been discussing.

Comparison of Advaita Vedanta with Kashmir Shaivism

Here is another article from the same site.

In fact, the description of the Absolute in both the systems admits of similar terminology except that Brahman is devoid of Kartr̥tva (agency), whereas Vimarśa or Kartr̥tva constitutes the Absolute essence of Paramashiva. The Shaiva absolutists never try to conceal their attitude towards Brahmavādins. The description of Vedāntin’s position as Nirvimarśabrahmavāda or Shāntabrahmavāda does not appear to be laudatory. Shaivas assign Sāmkhya’s Puruṣa and Vedānta’s Brahman to the lower state of aparāvasthā of the Self. They are not even prepared to accommodate them in the penultimate (parāparā) state, not to the talk of the ultimate state of the Self. According to Shaiva texts, such state has never come up for discussion in the Vedānta texts.
The absence of vigorous affirmation of freedom in the Vedāntic Absolute compels Kaviraj to conclude, hesitantly though, that appearance of duality is not actually eliminated from Shankara’s Vēdānta.

http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[Unseeking Seeker]

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@ jonesboy ... talk about synchronicity! Am currently reading Jaideva Singh’s ‘Pratyabhijnahrdayam’.

My point is simply this ... whether we are engaged in Bhakti or a Krishnamurthy/Rupert Spira type contemplation or a Ramana/Robert Adams ‘who am I’ self inquiry or any of the variants of Shaivism or Advaita Vedanta or Buddhism or any other path including selfless service, the mind-body requires to be rested in that even if awakened and illumined, who is doing the awakening? In short, in all paths, we surrender the ego in as much as we are able.

The Universe or Brahman or Shiva or Jesus as may be take over. We allow, in an aspect of childlike receptivity.

Depending upon layers of conditioning or we may call it resistance or blockages, the manner of awakening varies. However, the ultimate truth is the same. If felt otherwise, I’d say the coordinate falls short of a threshold wherefrom we assimilate the endowed enablement in permanence.

Anyway, views may differ. Reality is the actuality of being in the here & now continuum. The sun shining is the same for all and requires no introduction.

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[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

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@ jonesboy ... talk about synchronicity! Am currently reading Jaideva Singh’s ‘Pratyabhijnahrdayam’.

My point is simply this ... whether we are engaged in Bhakti or a Krishnamurthy/Rupert Spira type contemplation or a Ramana/Robert Adams ‘who am I’ self inquiry or any of the variants of Shaivism or Advaita Vedanta or Buddhism or any other path including selfless service, the mind-body requires to be rested in that even if awakened and illumined, who is doing the awakening? In short, in all paths, we surrender the ego in as much as we are able.

The Universe or Brahman or Shiva or Jesus as may be take over. We allow, in an aspect of childlike receptivity.

Depending upon layers of conditioning or we may call it resistance or blockages, the manner of awakening varies. However, the ultimate truth is the same. If felt otherwise, I’d say the coordinate falls short of a threshold wherefrom we assimilate the endowed enablement in permanence.

Anyway, views may differ. Reality is the actuality of being in the here & now continuum. The sun shining is the same for all and requires no introduction.

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Here is my point, each one of those has different end points or different levels of depth as pointed out in my earlier quote.

Some traditions state that all there is, is Brahama and you are just him finding is way back. The end result is cessation.

Ramana with his who am I questions just leads one to silence.

KS says the world is real and it is a part of you. For example you can see a cloud and within yourself feel the clouds, think of another's heart and feel it within you as you.

In AV the world and others are an Illusion.

In Buddhism there is no Oneness aspect. What makes up the One in KS and AV is called Universal Mind. Realizing the emptiness of Universal Mind is what makes one a Buddha. There are limitless Ones or we are each a One.

In Taosim you can think of it much the same as there are Limitless Ones but people are able to help each other.

Jesus taught much the same thing. Heaven is within and without, we are all joint members of Christ.. Oneness and the ability to directly help others which is absent from AV and Buddhism.

So the ultimate truth varies depending on ones view. If you think you have arrived for instance because your goal and tradition says silence is the goal and there is no such thing as Oneness as described by KS.. well there you are.. If your view is different you will know you haven't arrived yet and are still on the path...

[Unseeking Seeker]

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@ jonesboy ... who is the one present holding onto any belief system? We vaporise ... there is no one here ... No belief, no conditioning, no dogma, not even memory drawn imagery to which we are associated

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