Evidence that the Universe is Intelligent

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Saki

Yes but that wasn't my point. My point was that the universe wouldn't be acknowledged by anything, therefore, not so different from non-existence. While it would still exist, absolutely nothing would know about it; rendering it insignificant and useless.

Ah ok I see your point.. and yes without the self aware creature there is none to apply meaning to the universe. I wouldn't call it useless though, other creatures have their goals just like us.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

Ah ok I see your point.. and yes without the self aware creature there is none to apply meaning to the universe. I wouldn't call it useless though, other creatures have their goals just like us.

I believe all living creatures, even those that appear non-sentient to us, have self-awareness to some degree, in a way that is not comparable to our own self-awareness.

Could even be possible that every atom is also conscious in some way. Without consciousness, existence is not acknowledged. That's what I believe.

The universe is the way it is because you are the way you are.

For example, it is easy to believe that the universe has light in it apart from you, but it does not. Light is perceived by eyes, thus if there were no eyes in the universe the universe would not be light. Saki said it perfectly with the antennas. Your consciousness is what the whole universe is doing at the place you call here and now. You are the universe peeking at itself from your particular viewpoint, and the universe has many eyes and does not yet realize they are all connected to one body.

[Chrysaetos]

You are trapped in concepts. The universe requires no observer to be there, even though it may appear to be correct from our point of view..

So without animal life there would be no universe? We know that's false..

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

So without animal life there would be no universe? We know that's false..

No, all that we actually know for sure (more or less) is that this current universe exists, and there is animal life in it. We know of no other universes, so we know of no universe without animal life. And honestly, I can't conceive of a universe without animal life.

Think about it: what would the universe actually be if it were never perceived by anything?

Like for how long would it exist? Time only exists as subjectively experienced by whatever entities are moving through time, so if there were no conscious observers what would time be? And space only exists as perceived relations between objects in the subjective mind of a conscious observer, so if there was no entity to perceive any relations, what would space be?

Which opens up the interesting question: before there was animal life in this universe, what was time? Unless of course... everything is conscious.

[Chrysaetos]

I don't quite understand why it's such a hard apple to swallow. The 'universe' is here and we observe it. That does not make it dependent upon the observer, even though it is us who observe it and give it a name. Perhaps there's no universe without the human being? Well humans haven't always been around. Animals haven't always been around. The universe requires no living beings to be there, we are trapped in our own conceptual thinking if we believe otherwise.

You can't prove to me that you are 'real'.. we're very close to solipsism here. Perhaps I am the only existence there is and all of you are mere illusions and when I die all of you will cease to exist because I can't observe you anymore. Does that make any sense? If not, then you cannot disagree with me..

There is so much intelligent, sentient life in the universe, I'm not overly concerned what stars, planets think, or if they do.

[Xan]

Sentient just means conscious of existence. Thinking is another matter.

All existence is one. It's not possible for part of it to be conscious and others not. It's all made of the same original, essential stuff in many expressions.


Xan

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

You are trapped in concepts.

And you are not? Anything discussed here is a concept, so there is no escaping that. BUT we are playing with concepts here, and you seem to be stuck on the one that says the universe exists separately and independently from us.

There is only one concept you need to understand: there is no black without white, and no white without black. Believing that white or black exists independently is the mistake. Once you understand this you will at the same time understand that there can be no universe without YOU.

[Xan]

However, there is clear open space without an opposite. It's called pure awareness.


Xan