Happiness is not State of Mind

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by luntrusreality

I think I get closer to understanding what you mean by reference point, but not quite fully.

So the reference point is the human body/mind appearing in awareness?
With that I would agree.
But I wouldn't agree that we ARE this reference point. There is "one step" further so to speak.
This reference point of a human body/mind is just there. It is there like a chair is there.
The chair is seen from the reference point of a human body/mind but the reference point itself is arising in awareness.

So:

Pure Awareness -> Human body/mind or any other life-form -> Perceived objects/world from the point of view of a body

Pure Awareness doesn't split up into these other parts but they arise in it. A human body/mind reference point does not have its own independent consciousness.
When the separate entity is "dropped" all there is left is pure awareness. The body and mind are still there, but they are not personal.
Also this experience is not a personal experience of an individual body and mind.
With the end of the person, it is also the end of all persons.
There has never been an enlightened separate entity. That is impossible.

One's point of reference is in relation to the observer and that which is observed .

If one relates what they are to be of a mind body experience then so be it .

That's why I said it matters not what you think you are, It matters not if you think you are separate or not you are still perceiving through such a point .

So when you conclude that awareness is awareness or something arises out of something then your point of self reference is at the heart of your understandings in relation to whatever that is .

If you perceive life as a dream then the dream is in relation to how you perceive what you are . There has to be a point of reference in relation to what you are and the dream .

x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

One's point of reference is in relation to the observer and that which is observed .

If one relates what they are to be of a mind body experience then so be it .

That's why I said it matters not what you think you are, It matters not if you think you are separate or not you are still perceiving through such a point .

So when you conclude that awareness is awareness or something arises out of something then your point of self reference is at the heart of your understandings in relation to whatever that is .

If you perceive life as a dream then the dream is in relation to how you perceive what you are . There has to be a point of reference in relation to what you are and the dream .

x daz x

So in your model my point of reference would be that of pure awareness, right? Please say yes or I still don't understand

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi luntrus,
Yes, my true state is bubbling like a puppy or a baby giggling.

But, for me, I only know this because of the stillness in meditation.
Ha, I do absolutely nothing and bingo...happiness, peace, contentment....
a feeling of all is perfect is there.
Not a plug for meditation...but, ah, the peace and joy that
bubbles up within when all is still is where it's at for me!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Hi luntrus,
Yes, my true state is bubbling like a puppy or a baby giggling.

But, for me, I only know this because of the stillness in meditation.
Ha, I do absolutely nothing and bingo...happiness, peace, contentment....
a feeling of all is perfect is there.
Not a plug for meditation...but, ah, the peace and joy that
bubbles up within when all is still is where it's at for me!

Yes, there are many "portals" for us to put the separate entity on pause.
For some it is meditation, others listen to music or go into nature,
Meditation is probably the "purest portal" we can walk through in the waking state.
But formal meditation is not even necessary actually (although it has many other benefits).
The good stuff would be to know it not only in meditation but let it be your natural state (which it already is)


Luntrus

[lemex]

Originally Posted by luntrusreality

It is our natural "state". It can't really be veiled, only seemingly.
The sun is shining even when there are clouds.
Only when we believe to be on the earth looking up at the sun, we seem to not see the sun when its a cloudy day.

The physical world doesn't seem to be set up for bliss, but is set up for balance which always happens. I sometimes think the material world is some kind of test. What is the norm, pain or happiness and why. Are we living only a norm.

Originally Posted by lemex

The physical world doesn't seem to be set up for bliss, but is set up for balance which always happens. I sometimes think the material world is some kind of test. What is the norm, pain or happiness and why. Are we living only a norm.

Yes, the physical world is a balance of polarities.
But what is it in which the physical world appears?
"THAT" doesn't have any polarities. We are not something in a physical world. That is what I mean that our true nature is happiness.
Happiness itself, not happiness of a person.

Luntrus

I'm with God-like in my understanding that happiness is a human emotion. You say it's not that type of happiness that has a polar opposite, but linguistically, happiness does have meaning and connotations within the make up of the mind. Whilst you have given it a new meaning that is personal to you, it can't be argued that happiness IS our natural state. Because it isn't, it's a word that has meaning in peoples minds.

So far (and I've only skimmed through) the really real nature of us all has been described as happiness, peace, joy, love, still, quiet, awareness, at ease, light and fluffy. That's 10 words all claiming to be the real reality, natural state, true self (more words).

I say 'being' and even that is one word more than is needed to be.

Originally Posted by Ivy

I'm with God-like in my understanding that happiness is a human emotion. You say it's not that type of happiness that has a polar opposite, but linguistically, happiness does have meaning and connotations within the make up of the mind. Whilst you have given it a new meaning that is personal to you, it can't be argued that happiness IS our natural state. Because it isn't, it's a word that has meaning in peoples minds.

No, it is actually a word that is used for our true nature in Neo-Advaita circles, I just picked it up from Francis Lucille.
Watch the video, if you are interested (only 3 minutes), then you don't have to read it all :P
He basically says the same thing with a cooler accent.

Luntrus

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Ivy

I'm with God-like in my understanding that happiness is a human emotion. You say it's not that type of happiness that has a polar opposite, but linguistically, happiness does have meaning and connotations within the make up of the mind. Whilst you have given it a new meaning that is personal to you, it can't be argued that happiness IS our natural state. Because it isn't, it's a word that has meaning in peoples minds.

So far (and I've only skimmed through) the really real nature of us all has been described as happiness, peace, joy, love, still, quiet, awareness, at ease, light and fluffy. That's 10 words all claiming to be the real reality, natural state, true self (more words).

I say 'being' and even that is one word more than is needed to be.

I purposely use the world bliss which some have experienced few times. It is so much different then happiness. I can't even remember why or when I did experience it. For me being older it is harder almost impossible now. You see I was never taught about this. I use the word almost only because if I did it once the potential must be there. In the experience you are in total peace more like a state of being. Is it even real or possible? Then the world came back in.

Is the experience real? If one continually tries to go through the metaphorical wall can one slip for a moment into the true self under the body where being resides. What I realize is the advantage of modern society were you are allowed to explore. Is it possible to experience the spiritual self. Unfortunately it takes years of study and practice right now hence the concept of a norm. Do we teach this way...... I'd say still not yet.

[quote][b]

Originally Posted by luntrusreality

Yes, there are many "portals" for us to put the separate entity on pause.
For some it is meditation, others listen to music or go into nature,
Meditation is probably the "purest portal" we can walk through in the waking state.
But formal meditation is not even necessary actually (although it has many other benefits).
The good stuff would be to know it not only in meditation but let it be your natural state (which it already is)

Yes be it as a walking meditation itself, as an integrated, fully living embodiment in this way.


There are many paths to experience ones true self centre, its making *connection* to you in the interaction with life in some form that opens up feeling and how you feel in you, what feelings no longer serve the true self and how it can feel in a more harmonised state of being in that state of balance.


Often *lifestyle* as *it is*will only show how we have integrated that embodiment in feeling thus far- what we know so far in experience, so life itself often continues to challenge us to find that centre and live it with awareness and understanding with all life. Many life experiences and interactions will continue awaken us to feel and maintain balance within.
Nature seeks balance. So really there is a constant purification through the experience of life occurring in every moment. It will call itself to both experience and purification to show you you.

Being fully present or mindful in each moment is good waking practice.
But how you understand, become aware is really just opening you to see how things can be in you and give you the choice, understanding, awakening to be something that your mind and feelings might tell you otherwise.



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