Are we responsible of our behaviour?

Originally Posted by beautydylan

Of course I'm responsible for when I like tea

OK to responsible BD :-p

Yes and no like slice said. I don't call people ignorant when they don't know better, the ignorant are those that know better and do it anyways. You can not hold a mentally retarded people resonsible for his actions nor a baby that is pulling his mother's hair while she is breast feeding it.

If people knew what they were doing...would they still do it? I doubt. I know from my own experience that I have behaved badly at times..I did not know at that time any other way to express what I was feeling.

It's like Jesus said: forgive them for they don't know what they are doing.

Greetings..

At some level, in this present consciousness but disregarding malfunctioning physical equipment, there is the choice to change or not.. to remain ignorant or to change that condition.. there is enough evidence to reveal that the person that chooses to overcome conditioning and a contrary environment can do it, it is the power of choice..

Be well..

[Sarian]

I agree, Tzu, I see too many people that are ignorant to change. My ex for example could never see that he was wrong in anything and therefore, had no need to change. He would never take responsibility and therefore, placed blame on others. For example, when he would trash the house, it was because I said something that angered him. Also,if I didn't want to 'be sorry', I should not say a single word or he 'would not be responsible for what happened next."

Aside from him, there are other people I know or have known in my life that for whatever reason, the word narcissist comes to mind, seem incapable of thinking they are never responsible for anything unless it's something good, then they are in front of the line waiting for their credit due. Maybe that comes under malfunctioned physical equipment, but I often think it's more of an issue of pride....and an issue of "I dont want to change, you should instead..."

TzuJanLi-
At some level, in this present consciousness but disregarding malfunctioning physical equipment, there is the choice to change or not..

What level is that?

to remain ignorant or to change that condition..

If one is ignorant, how can they choose to change that condition?

there is enough evidence to reveal that the person that chooses to overcome conditioning and a contrary environment can do it,

What evidence is that?

it is the power of choice..

If this were true- why would the ignorant not choose awareness, enlightenment?
If this were true- there would be no reason to say, "hey, I choose to continue being ignorant and to suffer and cause suffering."

Those who are under the weight of conditioned mind- meaning most everyone-
have no ability in this state to choose the unconditioned- liberation.

When one is sound asleep, they cannot choose to wake up.

Originally Posted by Lisa

What level is that?


If one is ignorant, how can they choose to change that condition?


What evidence is that?


If this were true- why would the ignorant not choose awareness, enlightenment?
If this were true- there would be no reason to say, "hey, I choose to continue being ignorant and to suffer and cause suffering."

Those who are under the weight of conditioned mind- meaning most everyone-
have no ability in this state to choose the unconditioned- liberation.

When one is sound asleep, they cannot choose to wake up.

UHHH great insight Lisa...I got goosebumps all over LOL

[Sarian]

Originally Posted by Lisa

What level is that?


If one is ignorant, how can they choose to change that condition?


What evidence is that?


If this were true- why would the ignorant not choose awareness, enlightenment?
If this were true- there would be no reason to say, "hey, I choose to continue being ignorant and to suffer and cause suffering."

Those who are under the weight of conditioned mind- meaning most everyone-
have no ability in this state to choose the unconditioned- liberation.

When one is sound asleep, they cannot choose to wake up.

I didnt get goosebumps reading it. I only thought that some just will never see. I think of the term ignorance is bliss. Those that live in their own little ignorant worlds always thinking they have it all, know it all, the rest of the world is wrong. I see this because I have lived with a person like this and I have known so many others like this as well. My ex for example can have moments of remorse, but they fleeting. He truly believes he is greatly enlightened. In fact, he posts things he has copies from other places and places them throughout the house (oh, how I wish this divorce was over so he could move away to another state to be with his new love...)...but he posts sayings all over, this coming from a man who only cares about himself... I know a woman who will put on the crocodile tears when the world is not doing as she demands to get what she wants, but when even those tears do not work, she goes back to being the what she was previously. How can ignorant chose awareness and enlightenment when they already feel they are (falsely) aware and enlightened already and we should all follow their lead and advice?

I dont' think your post makes any sense...so I shake my head in bewilderment and cannot again, find how another got goosebumps, but that's the way of the world, I guess.

They cannot think those things because they are so puffed up on their own pride and arrogance. Even in their times of slight mellowing, it's not long lived and to change takes work, hard work and perserverence. I've been in the process of changing things that I don't like about me for many years and along with that, I take in the constructive criticism from others in my life whose views I value, whose insights I value and I take them and work on changing those as well. It's quite an undertaking for which many people just aren't willing to do and it's so much easier for them to ask the rest of the world to change instead and see them for as they see themselves...all grand and wonderful. It's quite sad.

Your last two sentences are not true. I have lived in a world where people have tried to condition my mind, form me to be what THEY wanted to be. Then I had the misfortune and huge mistake to marry a person who tried to do the same. You can fight it, and you can change it, but only if you want. Most people don't want to bother. As for being asleep, I was asleep, but I became acutely aware of what was going on and I chose to wake up....and I did wake up...and now I have control over my life again...and I am growing in my change...and yes, It's extremely liberating... doesn't mean I don't have to deal with a great deal of grief and sadness, I do, but I rejoice in the liberating that is happening.

Greetings..

Originally Posted by Lisa

What level is that?

At the any level, actually.. change is just a choice away.

Originally Posted by Lisa

If one is ignorant, how can they choose to change that condition?

How does anyone rise above the conditioning of their environment? They choose it, AND they act upon the choices.. choices without the deeds to manifest those choices are just empty wishes..

Originally Posted by Lisa

What evidence is that?

The half-black son of single mom, becomes the President of the US.. there are countless stories of people that have risen above their conditioned limitations, why do you want to enable their excuses for not rising?

Originally Posted by Lisa

If this were true- why would the ignorant not choose awareness, enlightenment?
If this were true- there would be no reason to say, "hey, I choose to continue being ignorant and to suffer and cause suffering."

Those who are under the weight of conditioned mind- meaning most everyone-
have no ability in this state to choose the unconditioned- liberation.

When one is sound asleep, they cannot choose to wake up.

There are forces that benefit from the 'sleepers' conditioning, those forces create the 'illusions' that people can't awaken, or that they are stuck in ignorance.. and, yes, even when people are "sound asleep" they can choose to wake up.. if that were not the case there would be no awakening at all..

Be well..

[Sarian]

Thank you, Tzu.

Originally Posted by Shabby

UHHH great insight Lisa...I got goosebumps all over LOL

lol- that's awake!