Suffering after enlightenment

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

ah! so "enlightenment" is a "pain into pleasure" endeavor? that's almost kinky. lol

I'm suddenly seeing whips and chains in your houshold...........lol

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I'm suddenly seeing whips and chains in your houshold...........lol

well, i was raised Catholic. hehehe!

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

well, i was raised Catholic. hehehe!

LOL........................me too!

I'm all Italian, I had no choice as far as I knew!

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

LOL........................me too!

I'm all Italian, I had no choice as far as I knew!

i'm not Italian but i wasn't given any choice either. all those gory portrayals of Jesus, saints and martyres transcending pain into passion made a huge impression on me. deeply conditioned into my psyche is the desire "to serve "God"" and when one serves "God" one must expect to suffer passionately. with a little slap i was confirmed as a "soldier of God", martyrdom as a desirable goal. passion and pain intermixed. symbolic of how close the centers for violence and sex reside in the brain. whatta bloody mess the Catholics made of my psyche. LOL it's okay though. comedy springs out of pain as well, though usually it's someone else's pain that instigates the laughter.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

i'm not Italian but i wasn't given any choice either. all those gory portrayals of Jesus, saints and martyres transcending pain into passion made a huge impression on me. deeply conditioned into my psyche is the desire "to serve "God"" and when one serves "God" one must expect to suffer passionately. with a little slap i was confirmed as a "soldier of God", martyrdom as desirable goal. passion and pain intermixed. symbolic of how close the centers for violence and sex reside in the brain. whatta bloody mess the Catholics made of my psyche. LOL it's okay though. comedy springs out of pain as well, though usually it's someone else's pain that instigates the laughter.

I hear ya!

I have no clue if I am enlightened (how would you know?). But I can say since all of this started, since the time I woke up, there has been suffering but it's become easier and easier to bear. At this stage, I would say that yes there is suffering but that you don't allow it to affect you for long, and it quickly disappears because you detach and don't cling to it. It's the clinging that creates the suffering.

This includes actual physical suffering. There is a fair amount of that which comes along with the process (body aches and pains). However, in recent years, I've learned that even those are possible to detach from. In past year, I've had some minor medical procedures that were supposed to hurt (a lot), and I was amazed that they didn't, really. Sure, maybe for a minute but then it was gone and forgotten. I even had major dental work recently without any Novocaine. Didn't need it. This is teaching me, as I experiment, that even physical pain is a product of the mind.

I have also had my best friend move away, and a very close friend die. I've had family members face cancer. I've lost my job. Been threatened with losing it again. Been faced with betrayal by someone I cared about. On and on....

I can't say I don't hurt at all - I do feel the pain but it's the clinging that causes the hurt to become suffering and for it to go on and on. When you can detach, when you can go back into your neutral observer space, the negative feelings come, and then go. Like leaves floating on the water.

I still feel others' suffering. I feel compassion. But, I don't allow myself to take on their suffering as my own.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by SerpentQueen

I have no clue if I am enlightened (how would you know?). But I can say since all of this started, since the time I woke up, there has been suffering but it's become easier and easier to bear. At this stage, I would say that yes there is suffering but that you don't allow it to affect you for long, and it quickly disappears because you detach and don't cling to it. It's the clinging that creates the suffering.

This includes actual physical suffering. There is a fair amount of that which comes along with the process (body aches and pains). However, in recent years, I've learned that even those are possible to detach from. In past year, I've had some minor medical procedures that were supposed to hurt (a lot), and I was amazed that they didn't, really. Sure, maybe for a minute but then it was gone and forgotten. I even had major dental work recently without any Novocaine. Didn't need it. This is teaching me, as I experiment, that even physical pain is a product of the mind.

I have also had my best friend move away, and a very close friend die. I've had family members face cancer. I've lost my job. Been threatened with losing it again. Been faced with betrayal by someone I cared about. On and on....

I can't say I don't hurt at all - I do feel the pain but it's the clinging that causes the hurt to become suffering and for it to go on and on. When you can detach, when you can go back into your neutral observer space, the negative feelings come, and then go. Like leaves floating on the water.

I still feel others' suffering. I feel compassion. But, I don't allow myself to take on their suffering as my own.

I really like how you differientiated between pain and suffering. I found that very helpful. It's painful to lose someone but it's suffering to not move on when its time.
Ii think that is what you are saying. It is what i heard.....lol
Nice post
James

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I really like how you differientiated between pain and suffering. I found that very helpful. It's painful to lose someone but it's suffering to not move on when its time.
Ii think that is what you are saying. It is what i heard.....lol
Nice post
James

Yes, exactly. And, there is even some pain that can be pleasurable, in its own way. I know there are certain situations I deliberately cling to because I enjoy the pain. In a weird way it makes me feel alive. But while yes I might feel pain over these situations, I'm not suffering. No, the pain is too delicious.

There's this eyes-wide-openess where you see that you invite what you invite into your life for a reason and a purpose.

Simple analogy: running a marathon. It is painful. But the reward at the end -- crossing that finish line, the endorphin rush -- is worth the pain so you embrace the pain. That's not the same as suffering.

[Internal Queries]

yea cool! if my body is hurting or some mental/emotional trauma is causing me distress "I" stand back from the pain and say to my Self "my my! how beautifully she suffers." the beauty of Renaisance art gave me that kind of appreciation.

LOL! oh "God"! too funny!

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by SerpentQueen

Yes, exactly. And, there is even some pain that can be pleasurable, in its own way. I know there are certain situations I deliberately cling to because I enjoy the pain. In a weird way it makes me feel alive. But while yes I might feel pain over these situations, I'm not suffering. No, the pain is too delicious.

There's this eyes-wide-openess where you see that you invite what you invite into your life for a reason and a purpose.

Simple analogy: running a marathon. It is painful. But the reward at the end -- crossing that finish line, the endorphin rush -- is worth the pain so you embrace the pain. That's not the same as suffering.

IQ has some extra whips and chains if you need them...........lol