Loving our enemies ???

[Miss Hepburn]

HOW can rape be reconciled with forgiveness !?

It has been said before: ''We don't forgive the action...but hopefully we can forgive the person", ie, the person's ignorance ....how?
By stepping into their shoes.

''The people that hurt others, have BEEN hurt''. They often are in a cycle or being hurt so lash out and hurt others - ''As I have been''.
Some start fires.
Their IQ is often pretty low and lashing out is all they know to do to relieve their own pain.
They aren't running to Psychotherapy, in other words.

We see this in road rage situations - their spouse sends them off for the day complaining and nagging withholding love...
SO they take it out on some driver that made a mistake - didn't see them.
(A guy here is still in prison, cuz he shot the guy in his truck trying to Exit...since that time the lanes on the Interstate have been changed.)

It's misplaced anger from pain and injustices caused to them.
(And taking things personally! That's a big one.)

Does this sound too clinical when a person has been raped? Sure.
BUT, you either steam in your anger or rise above
the crowd and see things a bit clearer ---as to WHY do these things happen.

You can follow the thread of childhood pains and traumas that have created dysfunctional adults in World Leaders throughout time!

Yup, all wars are started by brats that have not dealt with their traumas.

We can hate them, of course. Or we can dive deeper and hate that they didn't seek help ...but instead they invaded countries wanting power...Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Napoleon...you name 'em.
They are all secretly saying: "I will never let these injustices happen to me again! I will be in power, instead." Grrrr
Most of them were OCD, I bet, also.

All were hurt children acting out in the sandbox of the World, imo, well, and Dr. Janov's.

[AngelBlue]

It takes a very very very strong person to Love the enemy. Indeed it takes a very very very strong person to forgive .
Forgiveness does NOT mean that what they did was ok. It just means that you are not prepared to carry around the pain of their actions any longer and for that reason there comes a point when you have to let go of the anger before it destroys you.

With regard to the last 2 posts and the topic as an example I can promise that I have lived through that with my sister.
And not only did I NOT love her attacker, I spent 9 months prior to the court hearing how I could get hold of a gun so I could shoot him.
Of course I knew I would never do that but I had to let the anger and pain out and the pain was terrible to bear.

Having said that, after the court case I heard his father talking to some police officers about how he had tried to help his son over the years to get help to stop this from happening. In that moment I felt sorry for his father .

I felt no hatred towards the rapist when I saw him in that courtroom . I felt no further desire to shoot him. All I felt towards him was pity.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by AngelBlue

It takes a very very very strong person to Love the enemy.
Indeed it takes a very very very strong person to forgive .

For me? It is Grace. I can't do it.
But I did do the work allowing for Grace to enter me.
I've meditated for 50 years...and I'm a student of A Course In Miracles, which unbeknownst to many
is all about allowing the Holy Spirit to do things for you ...within you.

It isn't ME forgiving those that have hurt me, betrayed me with their untrue gossiping!
If it were up to me and my ego I'd place nails under all for of their tires or worse.
I have Mars in Scorpio, after all.

So happy, AB, you came to pity the man. :)

[Jean-Yves]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

For me? It is Grace. I can't do it.
But I did do the work allowing for Grace to enter me.
I've meditated for 50 years...and I'm a student of A Course In Miracles, which unbeknownst to many
is all about allowing the Holy Spirit to do things for you ...within you.

[Miss Hepburn]

I better say the Admins have asked that we only quote 2-3 sentences when quoting others here.
I know it's hard!! We all know it.

[AngelBlue]

Oh Miss H .... Placing nails under their tyres ??!!!!
You little scoundrel you LOL.....
Sometimes the "thought " of a little payback is satisfaction enough..!!
I know everything that you say is true.
I really do.
And I even surprised myself when I finally clapped eyes on the culprit . Because it WAS genuine Pity.
Also at that time of course we were still carrying a lot of pain but at least if I could not feel any degree of love I certainly wasn't harbouring hate .

[Miss Hepburn]

Ok, AB, before I was a good person, thank you Lord, decades ago...I had some vandals in my neighborhood ...
I single-handedly helped the police catch them. (They broke rear windows with cinderblocks, ok? With the heat wires.
Try replacing that car window!!)
I just personally didn't think the police did 'enough'...not at ALL!

3 am I crawled under a perp's car....smeared Limburger cheese on his exhaust manifold and on the canvas of his roof/top.
Once that is in there it is IN there.

Mars in Scorpio! Many people here will like me way more now, I bet!

[Redchic12]

Awww Miss H I luuuuuuv it!!!! Sorry probably shouldn’t laugh but it is really really funny.

My boyfriend painted a whole house and couldn’t get the money out of the guy after months and months of trying. It was a new place and nobody was living there so he went in one night and poured tar all over the walls. I laughed my head off. Sorry but there is something delicious about giving them a dose of their own medicine.

Well, what goes around comes around !

[AngelBlue]

Well I don't think it's funny RED , she's leading us astray. It's meant to be a spiritual forum and we all know I've always been an Angel all my life ( no choice with house full of police officers).....
LoL.
But really it IS funny.
Yes, a little bit of "a taste of their own medicine " ....
( Gosh, at this rate we all be getting banned including miss H)

[Jean-Yves]

Hello everyone...

Redchic12, to reply to your message (page 2)...

I don't think it's appropriate to talk about the importance of forgiveness to a mother whose child "has just been beaten to death"...I think it's important that our speech be adapted to the situation, i.e. what the other can hear. ..
If we really want to help the other in his suffering, it is important in my opinion to welcome his suffering without judgment, in an "open" space.

As you explain very well, there are then 2 possibilities for those who have been deeply hurt... Either refuse what appears to be an injustice... or continue to live as best as possible by opening up as much as possible to a process of healing... But the path can be long, because to really "heal", it is important to reconnect to this level of self which is always at peace, to reconnect with your soul.

I agree with Miss Hepburn when she says that you have to "take the height" to understand what motivates the aggressor to commit such destructive acts: (his own suffering, what he experienced as a child.. etc.) Understanding is undoubtedly the first step that will help the person who suffered the attack not to be judgmental, and it will undoubtedly be the first step that will lead to true forgiveness.
But even if there is this intellectual understanding, the suffering related to the aggression remains, and for this reason granting forgiveness will be difficult (Because it is obviously not a question of saying or thinking "I forgive", because for This forgiveness is sincere, it must be given at the level of the heart...

There is at this stage, in my opinion, a whole "work" to be done on the emotional level which consists in welcoming the suffering in oneself, so that it can gradually dissolve... This idea could also be expressed by: "to give this suffering to a level of reality superior to oneself".

The difficult situations of our life, the tests, the sufferings can be the occasion to elevate us, to deepen ourselves. In my opinion, it's like an invitation that life sends us...

Doctor Deepak Chopra compares the difficult situations of life to a wave which is heading towards a surfer... There are then 2 possibilities, either the wave helps him to go up, or it destroys him...

In this sense, the "enemy" (the one we don't love) can somehow be considered as the means given to us to elevate ourselves, or as an invitation to reconnect with our own heart.
It is in this, in my opinion, that the orientation of our life which is “to love your enemies” is important, because it helps to dissolve the duality of our being.
It can help us reconnect with our soul, our most essential "SELF" (that level of self that is always at peace).