My writing for your consideration 2

[Gem]

I think the 'you' word has a special power of its own and it needs to used sparingly... Affronts aren't pertinent to a particular person - andbehaviours like projection, assertion, imposition etc. have similar affect regardless of who behaves in that way. There is also a facet of closeness of relationship that can amplify or moderate affect, but generally speaking, it has nothing to do with the person one addresses as 'you'.

When using 'you', the person being addressed hears 'me', so over use of the word results in personalisation, even when only behaviour (and not personality) is being described.

It's difficult to address personal interactions without saying 'you', but the sole purpose of communication is to convey meaning. When people hear 'you' they are very likely to be wary, and take a defensive stance, which is only natural seeing that 'you' is very often described in derogatory ways, and in ways that could be construed as blameful. For example, despite the pretense of love and kindness on SF, the list of derisions I been subject to far outweigh compliments, and in view of past experience, when I hear 'you', it's fair to assume a high likelihood of derision. Thus, when I hear that word I brace myself for the forthcoming, and am a lot less likely to be receptive to what is being conveyed.

All my experience with 'yous' now leads me to exclude the word from my speech as much as I possibly can, because I personally understand its peculiar effect, and it's pretty tricky framing interpersonal interactions as one is so accustomed to just saying, "you....", but I think a minimalist approach is prudent.

Yes, when I see someone positioning themselves and ignoring my voice, it tends to remind me of serious abuse. But I know that I have this trigger and so I take that into account when I read.

I think if the subject of positioning becomes purely about the use of the word you, then those that do position themselves against others and don't wish to be seen that way, will simply use the word 'I' or 'they' in place of it. Then it becomes a pc way of speaking as opposed to making a difference to positioning. If a racist stops using the 'n' word, does that stop them being racist.

At the bottom of the page here, is as my post would have looked without the word 'you'. It's ok. But, that post was directed at a specific person regarding a specific boundary issue. It's the practical application of what is being talked about in this conversation if you like. And if a boundary cannot be made personal, then how can it be put in place or respected?

I was quite ready to consider if there was a better way, when I was pulled up on the use of the word 'you', with consideration, and was happy to explain the use of that word (which I feel was necessary in this case).

But making what are ideals into reality, does involve bringing it down to personal acts. Otherwise we are just saying, 'it ought to be this way' without attempting to pull ourselves and each other up on actually practising that and none of us is perfect. Talking is easy, walking it is what really creates the journey of development for me.

Natureflow, if I may add here, where personally I have felt a need to put boundaries regarding your own actions: it is that when I share an experience, rather than ask me about my experience in order to get to know it, I have found that a person might project something that they have experienced in the past that sounds similar and assume to already have "full" (a word you often use) awareness of that experience. By doing so, they diminish the persons right to share their own individual experience and place themself in the position of some expertise about that experience.

I spent some time talking with people that have experienced similar abuses as me, and one thing that stood out from that, was that even though many had similar experiences, the way in which those experiences were felt on a deeper level were very different indeed. The other thing I learned was how necessary it is to development for a person to express their own experience and have others simply listen without comparing or projecting their own experience onto that. So when someone says "I've been to the moon" I ask "what was your experience of it?"

Reading what you've said here, it does appear that you support a notion of equality rather than positioning. So I hope you will take what I've said as something to consider in that light.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ivy

Yes, when I see someone positioning themselves and ignoring my voice, it tends to remind me of serious abuse. But I know that I have this trigger and so I take that into account when I read.

I think if the subject of positioning becomes purely about the use of the word you, then those that do position themselves against others and don't wish to be seen that way, will simply use the word 'I' or 'they' in place of it. Then it becomes a pc way of speaking as opposed to making a difference to positioning. If a racist stops using the 'n' word, does that stop them being racist.

At the bottom of the page here, is as my post would have looked without the word 'you'. It's ok. But, that post was directed at a specific person regarding a specific boundary issue. It's the practical application of what is being talked about in this conversation if you like. And if a boundary cannot be made personal, then how can it be put in place or respected?

I was quite ready to consider if there was a better way, when I was pulled up on the use of the word 'you', with consideration, and was happy to explain the use of that word (which I feel was necessary in this case).

But making what are ideals into reality, does involve bringing it down to personal acts. Otherwise we are just saying, 'it ought to be this way' without attempting to pull ourselves and each other up on actually practising that and none of us is perfect. Talking is easy, walking it is what really creates the journey of development for me.

I think what it comes down to is a kind of understanding that any person can only respond to their own senses, which you have given an example of in your description of triggers. I have certain triggers which relate to raw sensitivities associated with past circumstances as well. Indeed one can exclude 'you' from their speech while still running narratives of an other, which is why I think what I'm saying here is pertinent to this subject.

When we might find ourselves responding to exterior things, being so attentive to them, it's quite distracting from what is actually happening momentarily withing self. We might remember 'oh he said this to me', or otherwise, associate one person with another or associate this experience with one of the past.


So ... it's really being sensitive about things in light of the fact that one doesn't know what circumstances might contribute to a persons delicacies, and their personality traits, and speaking consciously with regard to one's immediate sensory experience.

I think these considerations go a long way to allaying judgements and help to equalise the inversions between relative positions.

Originally Posted by Gem

I think what it comes down to is a kind of understanding that any person can only respond to their own senses, which you have given an example of in your description of triggers. I have certain triggers which relate to raw sensitivities associated with past circumstances as well. Indeed one can exclude 'you' from their speech while still running narratives of an other, which is why I think what I'm saying here is pertinent to this subject.

When we might find ourselves responding to exterior things, being so attentive to them, it's quite distracting from what is actually happening momentarily withing self. We might remember 'oh he said this to me', or otherwise, associate one person with another or associate this experience with one of the past.


So ... it's really being sensitive about things in light of the fact that one doesn't know what circumstances might contribute to a persons delicacies, and their personality traits, and speaking consciously with regard to one's immediate sensory experience.

I think these considerations go a long way to allaying judgements and help to equalise the inversions between relative positions.

It's all therapy