koan, ? any answers...

Originally Posted by Capacity

Me too.....

Like when we are assembling 'flat pack furniture ' I do the contemplating my Hubby does the doing

[QT Pie]

Originally Posted by Capacity

Yes I guess it was a koan...,because you did understand it, ( I kinda knew you would). I'm sure that you can see that if you didn't already understand it, that no amount of contemplating it would matter. That was my point.
Letting go, while it can be like opening up and freeing oneself of beliefs and such is at a deeper level, like letting go of a tree branch that you are holding into over a cliff by your mouth. It's like dying. But at the same time it doesn't happen until you understand the safety and beauty of it. We are made ready and we let go and yet we have nothing to do with the process.

Thank you for this :)

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by QT Pie

Thank you for this :)

😀..............

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by celest

Like when we are assembling 'flat pack furniture ' I do the contemplating my Hubby does the doing

Lol, my wife has it done by the time I finish reading the instructions!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

The man is a metaphor for consciousness. The tree, branches, and twig is thought. His teeth are attention. Consciousness is holding onto thought with the attention. The line, "his hands hold no branch, his feet find no branch is about the true nature of thought. Thought only has the reality we give it. It is a phantom. One cannot really get a hold of it or control it. The man shouting at him is insight. A flash of self awareness. It asks a question about the nature of what is. What is is the attention holding onto a thought. If he fails to find the meaning of the insight, he is lost, still stuck in thought. If he answers the question he sees the true nature of the false self. Thought stops with the awareness of it's true nature. The false self based on thought and not conscious awareness dies.

And there you are again ...I bet your IQ is above 120...

Originally Posted by Diijin

thank you for reading, i found this one
confused me for the monk made it a dicothomic problem seeming something
must be done, but my thought is 'put sandals on my head' if i were the man choping on a tree branch. rather i liked the story about
the strawberry plant better. that one was sweet.
who has an answer for this?
thanks
Diijin

* * *
KYOGEN said to his pupils: "Zen is a man hanging from a tree over
a cliff. He is holding on to a twig with his teeth. His hands hold
no branch. His feet find no branch. Up on the cliff-edge a man
shouts at him: 'Why did Bodhidharma come from India into China?'
"If he fails to answer he is lost. If he answers, he dies. What
must he do?"
* * *

I would say... he must consider what death means to him, besides what being lost means to him and make a choice.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Since there is no death, and one is never lost...he should smile
letting go of the twig.

I love this

Originally Posted by TaoSandwich

A koan doesn't look for an "answer", rather a statement of understanding. Each person's statement is an expression of their understanding of the meaning of the Koan. And while another's statement of understanding might lead you to understanding too, repeating their statement is probably more likely to be wrong than right. Also, if your answer is artificial, or comes from book knowledge rather than actual understanding (or is an answer considered as lacking, whatever that means), then traditionally in a zen monastery, the master would probe further to get a seed of genuine understanding, or dismiss the student's statement of expression as something contrived or read in sutras. It is best to study Zen until you have your own personal expression and traditionally, students have someone with experience to challenge that expression (although this, as always isn't necessary).

An example would be: "He doesn't have to open his mouth or move a single muscle to answer. Why would he die?" (not saying that this is a good expression of understanding. But it demonstrates that different practitioners will glean different aspects from the story).

-TaoSandwich

And thank you for adding this - koans are often confused for riddles that have a particular answer. Like you say, if you have a teacher, then they may know the student well enough to challenge their answers and send them back to contemplate more. But here an answer to a koan is a wonderful tool as a reflection of our individual response to life.

But also in reading others reflections, there is something to reflect on also - for example, I gave my reflection before reading the replies, then I reached Miss H's reflection and felt a 'YES' that is a good place to be in that situation... and 'dang' why didn't I see that

One day a fifty-year-old student of enlightenment said to Shinkan: "I have studied the Tendai school of thought since I was a little boy, but one thing in it I cannot understand. Tendai claims that even the grass and trees will become enlightened. To me this eems very strange."

"Of what use is it to discuss how grass and trees become enlightened?" asked Shinkan. "The question is how you yourself can become so. Did you ever consider that?"

"I never thought of it in that way," marveled the old man.

"Then go home and think it over," finished Shinkan.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by celest

One day a fifty-year-old student of enlightenment said to Shinkan: "I have studied the Tendai school of thought since I was a little boy, but one thing in it I cannot understand. Tendai claims that even the grass and trees will become enlightened. To me this eems very strange."

"Of what use is it to discuss how grass and trees become enlightened?" asked Shinkan. "The question is how you yourself can become so. Did you ever consider that?"

"I never thought of it in that way," marveled the old man.

"Then go home and think it over," finished Shinkan.

Thanks for the reminder, Celest.

It reminds me of a saying:
Every man to his own trade.