To who/m or what does ...

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey ..

Yes there can be differences, it really depends on each instance and it depends as touched upon before how much one has created for themselves ..

Can we tar the same brush with hitler as the road rage incident .. I would say yes and no depending on the situation and what results in .. be it personal or as a collective that effects millions doesn't matter .

It will always boil down to understanding what energies that are creating the experience .

It doesn't have to imply that one has to try and analyse or evaluate everything that happens in one's life pertaining to another's infiltration but it's good to be open minded at the possibilities for why things happen, good or bad in one's eyes .


x daz x

Hello Daz.
I agree with what you say above, in general.
I agree it is always good to be open-minded, for certain,and to acknowledge no one of us has all the info and all the wisdom.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I am aware of past lives with my mum but not my ex . I think there is a lot of thought that goes on behind the scenes in regards to finding the right peep for the right experience .

Perhaps it's likened to auditioning someone for the perfect role depending on their qualities and their past experiences .

I think at times soul families are ideal candidates because there is already a strong bond between each other .

This bond can bring a deeper feeling within the earth plane experience making the experience more heart felt even if it reflects a heart that's broken .

x dazzler x

Hey there Daz, that's very interesting about your mum and not surprising about your ex either , and I say that with the greatest of respect as I think it is often the case there. I don't recall my ex in any of my past lives.

What was the prior life or lives you recalled having with your mum? If it's alright to ask for broad strokes...if not, no worries It's just lovely to hear more about her as I feel I know her a bit from all you've shared.

I am very close to my mum but I am not certain if I've had any past lives with her. She has a forgiving heart, like me...this gave her the capacity to love, and I always recognised and resonated with that, and built on that. Perhaps we'll have lives together in future

And for certain, I agree that we do share experiences with our close soul family members. They are treasures and it's too bad that in the modern day...and much of the past as well...there was so little true, authentic love expressed from men to women, particularly. It was so often wrapped up in sexual desire and control, aside from loving one's mum, gram, sis and aunties, LOL. It's pretty clear, the stark differences, when I look to post-deluvian Gaian society (what we call recorded history)...the treatment of women since "the flood" has been mostly base and perfunctory. We've nearly entirely lost our way as a species, hollowing out the centre of who we are in interbeing. Not surprisingly, I had much healthier loving connections with my closest soul fam member as best mates and as brothers, in diff times and cultures far removed from our recorded past (except for the uprising of totalitarianism...that was in common, LOL).

Though way back in those other times and places, I did have a spouse whilst I was a gent, and I loved her dearly and was faithful, of course. We all lived under oppression, but I loved her and saw her as my equal, sharing everything with her, including my underground work. She felt I didn't listen to her concerns enough and she felt I put the cause first. How do I explain that my fear gene doesn't work like most, and that all I did in service was first of all for her, then myself and the world? I am a creature of faith (not dogma). She turned us in thinking to save me and shore up our personal security from "the law", but too predictably we (I and all my mates in the underground) were slaughtered. Weapons and dogs. She was he, LOL, the same who murdered me directly elsewhere.

As a woman, I have never had that kind of present, solid love and friendship of true equals that I gave to her from any man in any lifetime as a woman -- and neither have most women TBH, even if someone is warming the bed and has committed. Even though I know I could have listened more and honoured her concerns far better, and she'd say I wasn't present enough -- for sure, no one's perfect. But if we could all give even some of this sort of love to our partners, we'd already have solved half the core problems of the world. And we'd have expanded the realm of the possible within every heart and mind.

I do know this...everything in the universe is like politics...ultimately, it's all local . It's all personal and interpersonal, or experienced by the self-aware, self-referential self (as both doer and observer). We are and we inter-are with one another and with all that is. That is the real universal constant: love = change = self = selves = Self.

Peace & blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

If Hitler were not aware of his true nature and was rather blindly pursuing misalignment, then we might say that whilst of course we always have a choice, he was likely to choose as he did -- given the opportunity and so forth. This is usually the case, even in a situation as egregious and destructive as his was for the rest of humanity.

If Hitler were aware of his true nature and nonetheless chose to act in brutally misaligned ways, then he was actively turning away and actively choosing misalignment. This is a very different situation entirely. This is, by definition, really only possible for one who has already reached a certain level of awareness. Only then can we choose from a position of greater awareness within ourselves.

So, interestingly, it is really quite unlikely that Hitler was aware much of his true nature. His life path is the evidence. And thus his post-life remorse I've heard of seems all the more believable and probable.

"Heil Hitler! (I mean Hey 7)

I touched upon this aspect a while back using the soldiers analogy of laying down their arms .

You won't have a peeps that has Self realized killing others like a mad man possessed, you won't have a Self realized peep pulling the trigger gently with their eyes closed .

It doesn't mean that one wouldn't defend themselves or their family if the situation arose, but perhaps these situations don't occur?

How many Self realized individual stories have you read where one is blissfully in the bosom of Self Love and carries on regardless blowing other people up?


So what I believe occurs is the course of such actions is predestined to happen based upon agreements made by all parties that forget all about it when reincarnated .

This is something I have touched upon and is crucial . One has to understand the energy behind the scenes otherwise one will jump to conclusions and judge others by our self morales only .

If it's not energetically possible for a Self realized individual to go against his own energetic 'being / knowing' and peeps agree to sufferings when incarnated by the hands of others, then there really is only one understanding to be had about the abuser and the abused .

There is in my eyes no spontaneous moment where one starts a war, or kills a million people because there has to be agreement / mutual consent prior to the act .

There is divine order in the midst of chaos, it just seems like chaos when your in the thick of it .

We then as questioned earlier have to reflect upon why on earth would anyone consent to a mad man wiping out your physical existence of inflicting a great deal of sufferings .

This is the golden ticket question . There is no malice, revenge, betrayal in the spirit world when agreeing to future life experience, so when you add all these points up you don't have to know where another is coming from in these instances and one's speculations are encompassing the understandings mentioned above .

Free will from an immediate level of self awareness is a red herring although not everything is set in stone . It really depends on the situation at hand .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Yes, I agree that until one or both reach some level of awareness, no one can say for certain much of anything, as one or both would be acting whilst unaware of who they are at centre.

Peace & blessings
7L

Yes, everything is speculated in reflection of ourselves . Our awareness of ourselves .

While on the earth I would say it a rarity that all aspects / knowings are immediately present .

I think there is information on the masters initiations that speak of this kind of access .

I think being true to oneself in the moment is all one can do .. and act upon that truthfulness and self honesty ..

I would say self enquiry as I know it to be is a divine tool to get to the heart of oneself.

This is why when one is lost unto themselves look within ..

and yet there is still the mentality for peeps that are lost to say what they are is here, no need to look for what is present lol ..

This type of approach has confusion written all over it, it is the blind leading the blind ..



x daz x

[God-Like]

....


Something I listened to last night actually https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuM...MXD79FuV8Blvlw where hitlers name came up .

There was also the mention of an old pope called Bruno who didn't cross over after physical death through his anger of leaving behind the physical world and then created an awful lot of dark energy in the aftermath ..

There was a little mentioned about why peeps sacrifice their lives at the hands of others to help them bring forth the light eventually .

This was very apt indeed regarding my question of why would anyone agree to be killed in their earthly life ..

The answer most indeedy would be for the greatest of good for all concerned, it's just not known immediately .

That's where judgements and emotions take over until that moment of clarity .


I think the actual link was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtaoeJ0WeU


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

"Heil Hitler! (I mean Hey 7)

Jaysus Dazzer, hahaha! Not sure of your implication here, LOL.
I was the lord's willing minion the 1st go round ages ago, LOL, but hardly Hitler. I never laid a hand in anger or violence on anyone in any lifetime, 'cept as a man as the lord's fixer (it was work, not joy) and for the cause as needed, in defense. I learnt way back that violence solves nothing and is never the answer or the "final solution". It is unfortunately still necessary at this point for defense and for containment, and that's basically it.

I think my longstanding, strong aversion to bloodlust and gratuitous violence and abuse of power generally is a core aspect of my character and likely one reason why I've been a woman these last several go-rounds. In my experience ;) once we learn to forgo abuse of power, to starve that wolf and exercise conscious temperance and discipline in basically all aspects of our lives, learning lessons is massively assisted.

I touched upon this aspect a while back using the soldiers analogy of laying down their arms .

You won't have a peeps that has Self realized killing others like a mad man possessed, you won't have a Self realized peep pulling the trigger gently with their eyes closed .

It doesn't mean that one wouldn't defend themselves or their family if the situation arose, but perhaps these situations don't occur?

How many Self realized individual stories have you read where one is blissfully in the bosom of Self Love and carries on regardless blowing other people up?

Very few, LOL...agreed.

So what I believe occurs is the course of such actions is predestined to happen based upon agreements made by all parties that forget all about it when reincarnated .

This is something I have touched upon and is crucial . One has to understand the energy behind the scenes otherwise one will jump to conclusions and judge others by our self morales only .

If it's not energetically possible for a Self realized individual to go against his own energetic 'being / knowing' and peeps agree to sufferings when incarnated by the hands of others, then there really is only one understanding to be had about the abuser and the abused .

I think there are some agreements to meet and engage, perhaps as family or mates or partners...or else maybe to be alive at the same time, and sometimes it's under a Hitler. I don't disagree that these tragic outcomes will be somehow be put in service of the good, ultimately, as they must for as long as we perpetuate them individually and collectively.

But I don't really believe that we must proceed with a war, or with genocide, or with personal harms done to others. I think every moment, and every interaction with another or with others, are opportunities to meet and engage and grow...even to awaken more deeply and more fully. And in those rare cases of awakening, one can turn away from his path as a warmonger and a murderer once he simply takes a new turn. Some of those we call saints and statesmen have done so.

I think it's more as you say below that not all is set in stone. In fact, nothing is set in stone in the truest understanding of reality. Which is that the universe is re-created in each instant out of nothingness, but of course is influenced by the karma and interbeing of the prior moment. Still, once awakened, we do have the power to choose anew. We do not have to proceed down the path to war and genocide, or even just of personal cruelty or abuse or unkindness. We may stop this and start that, we may turn away from that path and toward another.

All that is required to take a different turn or decision is awareness and ownership. Of course, these are hard-won and require grace and humility and the ability to adapt and to change...an openness of heart and mind and of being and doing. It's like the Incredibles 2: [superhero to ambassador] Attain world peace! [A to S] As soon as you defeat evil!

And yet, in any lifetime, there is the opportunity to remember, to awaken, to become aware...and to take ownership and to take conscious choices. It may not yet be commonplace or probable for many if as yet unawakened to their true nature. But it is always possible...and one day, it will be probable and even commonplace to turn away from violence and cruelty and toward authentic love, toward love and justice (lovingkindness and equanimity)

There is in my eyes no spontaneous moment where one starts a war, or kills a million people because there has to be agreement / mutual consent prior to the act .

There is divine order in the midst of chaos, it just seems like chaos when your in the thick of it .

We then as questioned earlier have to reflect upon why on earth would anyone consent to a mad man wiping out your physical existence of inflicting a great deal of sufferings .

Short version, we come here in good faith, with some but not all meetups planned, and bad stuff simply routinely happens when folks are unaware. ;)

This is the golden ticket question . There is no malice, revenge, betrayal in the spirit world when agreeing to future life experience, so when you add all these points up you don't have to know where another is coming from in these instances and one's speculations are encompassing the understandings mentioned above .

Free will from an immediate level of self awareness is a red herring although not everything is set in stone . It really depends on the situation at hand .
x daz x

Yes, there is no malice, revenge, or betrayal in spirit. But there is often still pain and confusion and a need for healing. That is where the truth in love needs to be brought forth and applied. That is, as I've said before, one primary reason for incarnation...to apply the truth in love to the wounds of the spirit.

To render us each whole and healed, we must be and do authentic love for one another. Forgiveness, repentance, reconciliation...these are real and eternal to the spirit, but they are acts of the incarnated soul, to be performed whilst here on earth, whilst in the material realm. Where it's tough and where confusion and pain reign. That's the whole point, to take choices based on love and forgiveness, on faith and grace -- very tough at times -- and that's where we forge and render the mettle (metal) of our souls, to be carried forth in spirit. That's how important incarnation is.

That bit you mentioned is so key...realising that for us here and now, it's not all set in stone, and that's exactly why we have these experiences and come here in the flesh to experience time and consequences and karma more broadly. To point us toward truth in love, toward awakening and taking ownership.

We incarnate (IMO) so that we have the opportunity to mould our core nature...the enduring self...into a thing of great beauty and strength. We take conscious choices and to realise the nature of our responsilibity and ownership, which is a universal truth. Every decision taken shapes our eternal soul, our eternal consciousness, and thus the nature of all that is, more broadly.

By taking decisions that align with our core nature, we change the universe in each moment, turning it and bending it and reshaping it like polishing a diamond. To better reveal the truth of who we are and of What Is. And this is exactly the divine order brought forth from chaos, or at least our own not insignificant contribution to that truth and that way.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

[lemex]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

By taking decisions that align with our core nature, we change the universe in each moment, turning it and bending it and reshaping it like polishing a diamond. To better reveal the truth of who we are and of What Is. And this is exactly the divine order brought forth from chaos, or at least our own not insignificant contribution to that truth and that way.

Change the universe or the soul each moment??????? I understand the universe is an illusion, do you mean it in that sense, we change the illusion. As you say we mold core nature as was said through universe (what is in it).

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by lemex

Change the universe or the soul each moment??????? I understand the universe is an illusion, do you mean it in that sense, we change the illusion. As you say we mold core nature as was said through universe (what is in it).

Hello there Lemex :)
I mean all of it. We change the actual material outcomes in many cases and we also change or shape our eternal nature, our individuated consciousness. This constitutes a shift or change in the soul in each moment from the point at which we choose consciously. And just as the universe (in most any sense we intend) is influenced in each moment by the residual consciousness and material constitution in prior moments leading up to each new moment, so is our eternal individuated consciousness. That's how we build and shape our soul. It's a bit like working out, but both more grueling and more enduring

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Yes, everything is speculated in reflection of ourselves . Our awareness of ourselves .

While on the earth I would say it a rarity that all aspects / knowings are immediately present .

I think there is information on the masters initiations that speak of this kind of access .

I think being true to oneself in the moment is all one can do .. and act upon that truthfulness and self honesty ..

I would say self enquiry as I know it to be is a divine tool to get to the heart of oneself.

This is why when one is lost unto themselves look within ..

and yet there is still the mentality for peeps that are lost to say what they are is here, no need to look for what is present lol ..

This type of approach has confusion written all over it, it is the blind leading the blind ..



x daz x

Hey there Dazzer :)
On the one hand, I agree that this is true if we look at the individual soul without regard to others, but this a purely theoretical exercise as we exist in interbeing. So in order to put some context around it, we need to ask being true in what sense and to what self? Individuated consciousness in the flesh does not come to be except in interbeing. This is true in spirit and in the practical sense of growing up in human society (rather than failure to thrive, or rather than feral and diminished).

There is a very practical, day-to-day compromise that we must make whilst incarnated between selfishly doing as we please whenever, and living with others who too have a right to exist unmolested and with dignity and agency, same as we do. That is a huge part of what this journey is all about...making those compromises and acknowledging those rights, particularly if and when it goes against what we want coz we want. Authentic love at its most basic recognises that right of one and all to exist with dignity and agency...and narcissism seeks to deny our alignment with the foundational reality of authentic love. That is the temptation that the abuse of power presents and it's also why the structure of society exists at all. It provides a basic, practical encounter of what authentic love for others looks like and what it requires of each of us.

The narcissist, the murderer, the warmonger, and many others...they are being true to themselves in one sense, in that they are unaware (let's assume) of the inherent misalignment in their being and doing at present. Morevover they are content in their smug certainty that the harms they perpetrate are just and right, or that others deserve them, or made them do it, or what have ye. But when we live in a society with others, it's not all about us. That is why the most basic norms and laws apply regarding codes of conduct. Regarding the containment and unacceptabilty of vigilante justice. Of murder, or abuse. Of violence and aggression.

Likewise, it's why there are norms and codes of conduct regarding courtesy, respect, and decency, and why kindness and compassion and justice are promoted as good and as ideal. These norms and these laws regarding codes of conduct exist because we collectively realise that all humanity deserve to receive these things (ideally anyway). And it doesn't matter if you're being true to yourself by murdering or abusing or being cruel, it's still not acceptable in this collective human reality.

In this way, the collective reality of the present moment meets the eternity of the idividual soul. It's a joint effort and the collective of humanity both supports us and also checks us in our arrogance or apathy even when, as Hitler did, he felt he was above those things as supreme ruler, LOL. The rest of the world had to rise up and say, no, you're not above the collective norms of decency and civility, regardless if you're being true to yourself according to you.

That same sort of check and balance applies to the individual when he or she feels inclined to be cruel or abusive or violent or what have ye. When others and when very basic societal norms push back demanding they leave off or cease and desist, it's a reminder that our eternal right to be a murderer or a warmonger is not above others' right to exist or to live unmolested (ahimsa). And it's the same with the case of cruelty versus kindness, and so forth. That's why I have spoken of avoidance (if possible) and of containment. Because it is often the most loving way to deal with those who feel their right to be who they are and damn the consequences (Hitler, etc) is more important than your right to simply exist.

We are fast approaching the time and place where we will need to take these decisions regularly with individual and collective love and justice. Many are unaware and unawakened, and that's why we have basic codes of conduct to co-exist with one another at any scale. Those who disdain other individuals and the human collective -- and they exist, LOL -- those who feel that their right to impose their will regardless of another and their right to simply exist are at level of awareness that is so fundamentally rudimentary that collective containment (or killing in self-defense) may be necessary for time or an age or an aeon.

I think the focus here should be, in earnest, much less on why the victims or some folks need to suffer and more on taking ownership and reflection by all...including those who perpetrate harms on others. If need be, containment may be necessary, as may avoidance. This taking ownership applies collectively too at the level of society and of nations, with regard to seeking more sustainable and just practices globally that rely less on exploitation of others and which focus on better distribution and more sustainable lifeways. But until we begin to take ownership individually, society often functions as a structure that ideally buffers us from the most egregriously narcissistic and infantile amongst us, like the Hitlers, whilst they are in that space.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

....


Something I listened to last night actually https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuM...MXD79FuV8Blvlw where hitlers name came up .

There was also the mention of an old pope called Bruno who didn't cross over after physical death through his anger of leaving behind the physical world and then created an awful lot of dark energy in the aftermath ..

There was a little mentioned about why peeps sacrifice their lives at the hands of others to help them bring forth the light eventually .

This was very apt indeed regarding my question of why would anyone agree to be killed in their earthly life ..

The answer most indeedy would be for the greatest of good for all concerned, it's just not known immediately .

That's where judgements and emotions take over until that moment of clarity .


I think the actual link was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtaoeJ0WeU


x daz x

Hey there - sorry I missed this earlier.
Long story short, yes agreed, that's why we come and that's why we forgive and that's why we try, try, try again. All will ultimately be rendered to the good in spite of (ourselves), because love is the higher law.

That doesn't mean IMO that harms we inflict are either planned or justified, either one. Only that regardless, all is ultimately always put to the good, regardless. The good that emerges after great harms will be different to the good that emerges after great lovingkindness. At the more extreme it may be in a different place and time entirely, and not all physical peoples and worlds and realms survive.

There is IMO always good reason to take care and to practice lovingkindness from equanimity. It's just not always as apparent at other stages of the journey. As you say, the impulses, urges, and surface emotions may exert greater sway at those times.

To go back in time after time is really an act of great faith and great love, knowing it's likely to end badly much of the time, till we round the bend I think it took quite a while for me to find my feet and I was pretty overburdened and underwhelmed with life as a woman in the past. I find it a tad difficult to think I would have signed on to keep on as things had been going, but worse now as I'd no options and no way to defend myself.

I'm pretty certain I was hoping to encounter some kindness from those souls I trusted, as I was coming here now in a small, weak, and vulnerable package. I found some bit of kindness, surely, as do most. But what I also found was that once you arrive here, many things change. Many folks change. Many souls lose their way or only dimly remember the kindness and love that they are...they are unkind, cruel, exploitative, violent, etc.

Whatever agreements might have actually been made and made in good faith may go out the door, hahaha. That is not a part of the agreement; rather, it's a part of the disclaimer and thus, still valid. The legal term for this is "caveat emptor", but here it applies in the spiritual sense. And when you are vulnerable, the absence of the good and the kind are felt much more harshly -- as in, your life and your survival are often harshly impacted.

My experience has been, stuff happens down here, and it's mostly unplanned and unexpected in the sense of the eternal soul or spirit -- and thus mostly occurs regardless of and even in opposition to any prior arrangments (which may be applicable at times). Nonetheless, Source and guides being what they are, it is turned to the good in the greater plan...it just may take longer in this realm, as we experience things ;)

My experience is also that we cannot justify the harm we give and no one deserves harm inflicted upon them. It simply happens because of where we are in that moment and the choices taken by one or more of us. Thus, no one deserved or earned or needed the harm I inflicted...it's just where I was at. I made mistakes and I hurt others...and what I do and say is only on me, ultimately. The same applies to anyone.

When we know better in love, we do better in love. However I also think that if others hold to a somewhat different view on some details, they could certainly see what happens as justified in some sense because it is all put to the good. I would disagree some in the details but at the highest level there is a broad agreement there :)

Peace & blessings
7L