wicca/chritianity

Am a Catholic- but a friend made me think and am now also wicca. Couldnt ratiolinise, the realised. The love of the goddess, is the the love for the second part of the trinity, essentially feminine, otherwise how would God have known to make the differentiation.
The spirit which moved over the land in creation, is trapped therein, he/she is that part of it , worshipped by pagans, in that worship, we worship only the One. God is too infinite to appear on this earth, his son was earth bound and tottaly part of it, the spirit, which was ther at Pentecost, is part of it. The part that is always here. Inhabiting every thing (part of the (Godhead) the part of God that is here (I know He always is). - when wicca and pagans worship - they worship the highest.
In being wicca, I accept the Son, and the Father, but must be accepted as appreciating the worship of all around, the spirit, who told the ancients to love, to appreciate that all the plants are part of the creation, that aspirin comes from willow, that digitalus comes from foxgloves.
That everywhere His redemption lies around.
And the wisse - the wicca have always known - the people , the wise ones , who have tended to illness, birth and good health around.
Sandy

I think I

Originally Posted by Space_Man

the Son was not divine

for what its worth, i believe we are all divine, in essence we are all souls, sparks of divine conscient light, and thereby we are all children of God (that is the enitity you are calling the Father/Creator God, which i also see as a soul same as us, but not debased by ever incarnating into bodies on the physical planes). Creation requires a mother too.... so surely it is a Father/Mother/Creator God.... yep maybe thats another couple of cans of worms opened...

[quote] Yeah

I am with you there. We are all divine. We are all equal siblings of the all/God/Gods.

I beleve the problem starts when we try to define God in human terms. We make an attempt to make God human. If we are all part of the all then the all is to grand to be a single gender. God is an perfect idea. To try to make God a man or woman is a human idea. God is all. First and last / Male and Female / light and dark / everything we are, have been and will become. God is the connection that runs threw everything. Purfect and pure. To look within and find it is the human aspect. Or should be the human quest anyway.

Matthew T Volk
www.frozenlife.ca

[quote=howiemac] i believe we are all divine, in essence we are all souls, sparks of divine conscient light, and thereby we are all children of God

Originally Posted by howiemac

I believe the early Christian Fathers modelled the Christian dogma on the earlier pagan religions they were intent on replacing, providing direct replacements for each of the pagan Gods, so that the people at large would accept the changes.... they changed the Goddess into a male form, and generally twisted things into a patriarchial format, then had to introduce the Virgin Mary to replace the lost earth mother .... :?:

You might find this site interesting: Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth!!

Hi! I am new here (Thanks Spaceman!) just wanted to say hello!

KB

I was just glancing over several of the threads and saw this post by howiemac:

i see Christianity (though not every Christian) as polytheisitic - worshipping God, Jesus, Mary (protestants excepted), even numerous Saints...

I just wanted to clarify this common misconspection: (I speak for Roman Catholics only)

First of all, God the Father and Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons in one God. This is the Trinity. I feel this is all I need to say on that, as it is a whole different topic.

Mary is the Mother of God, meaning that God came to Earth as Jesus, being born of Mary, of human kind. He is fully divine and fully human. Again, I don't feel I need to explain that any further, but if you have a question or thought, let me know.

I do feel I need to explain what a Saint is, though. Every person in Heaven is called a saint. On Earth, the Church might make one "canonized" meaning that they have been enrolled in the canon (and get to be named Saint with the big "S") of the Church calendar with a Mass and an Office in one's honor, and then can become patron of parish churches, oratories and cathedrals.

The Church has this process so that one's memory will be kept with pious devotion by the Universal Church. This process is open to someone who has deceased, and while alive expressed evidence of joy (no matter how difficult life was - this shows complete & absolute faith in God), heroic virtue (the practice of all Christain virtues in a truly perfect and exemplary manner) and miracles through the intersession of the Saint's prayers - meaning, a human "prayed" or asked, a potential Saint to pray to join in prayer together to God for a miracle to occur & then does. And then this miracle must be examined by scientific, medical, theological, juristic, and historical techniques to exclude any possibility of a natural explanation.

With that said, many people say that Mary & the saints are worshiped. This is not true. Although it can be understood how this misconspection came to development. The word "worship" comes from the Old English weorthscipe which means "worthy of honor" or "worthy of respect". Therefore, it is never correct to say that the Church worships Mary or the saints (this term was only properly used in the Old English, which is not spoken anymore). In recognition of her unique relationship with God, the Church renders to Mary a unique reverence notably higher than the respect accored to other saints.

To demonstrate this how this misunderstanding is incorrect, it is uesful to understand some Latin. In Latin worship owed to God alone is called latria which roots comes from an ancient Greek word meaning the adoration that humans owe to the divine, acknowledging one's total dependence upon God. But the word dulia is the kind of respect that is own to the saints. This word means "appropriate" or fitting and proper" as courtesy is proper to elders, the President, etc etc.

Hyperdulia is a higher kind of reverence that's accorded only to Mary, first among all saints. It basically is dulia, but higher. Hyperdulia is an entirely different thing form latria and it can't diminish the unique honor owed to God.

Yes, people "pray to the saints". They don't actually "pray" to them, but ask them for help and to join in prayer together, as I mentioned above. Just like humans on Earth ask their families and friends to pray for them, they also ask the saints, their friends in Heaven, to pray for them too. It isn't a belief that the saints can do anything on their own, everything that occurrs does so through God. That is why the saints are asked to intercede or for their intercession ("to plead on another's behalf").

I hope that wasn't too long!

KB :

Wicca is based on the legend of the Godess, the God of the waxing year (oak king) and the God of the waning year (holly king). During this time the goddess shows her four aspects.. the maiden in spring, the mother in summer, the wise woman in autumn/fall and the crone in winter. The god of the waxing year represents all that is pro life, he courts the maiden in spring at beltane they are brought together. By Lammas (aug 1st) his work is done and the seed is to be harvested. He has given life to the earth and now dies. His flesh and blood ( beer and corn) feeds the community after his sacrifice as he descends into the underworld. (like osiris...?) Later he will be resurrected as the sun will rise again, and the trees and fields will be green again. The Holly king now comes into play, he rules until the longest night has passed..(dec 22nd) and the god of the waning year (oak) steps in again.
This cycle is often repeated throuought mythology and religion, nature being an obvious analogy for us humans. Christianity adopted it in the symbol of Christ crucified, dormant, returned to earth and ascended....
There are also examples in religious texts where god spoke the world into being with a few magical words...or as adam was made from the dust and had life breathed into him.... so was god the first magician?

Thanks for what you wrote there Kind Bean... you've clarified a couple of misconceptions that I personally, had about Roman Catholocism!
:)
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On the subject of the Trinity:

Originally Posted by Kind Bean

I was just glancing over several of the threads and saw this post by howiemac:

I just wanted to clarify this common misconspection: (I speak for Roman Catholics only)

First of all, God the Father and Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons in one God. This is the Trinity. I feel this is all I need to say on that, as it is a whole different topic.

Whilst I am happy to move any deeper discussion on the nature of the Trinity to a specific thread on that subject, I would like to make a comment on this, here on this thread.

I have tried for many years to 'be' a Christian... (I've attended Anglican/Church of England/Evangelical churches) but now, I don't know exactly how to define myself... it doesn't worry me too much to be honest... but my views/beliefs don't tend to fit in with accepted Christian teaching... So my opinions are not representative of main-stream Christianity...

Throughout my 'Christian years', I have always struggled with the concept of the Trinity - I have never understood how 3 separate 'beings' can make up one 'God'....

I have, in the past, been taught that the 3 parts of the Trinity are 3 distinct 'beings' - they are not just mere 'aspects' of one 'person'. For example when we say "Mum" - we can consider her (amongst many other 'aspects') to be: mother-housewife-cook or, similarly "Dad" - we can consider him to be: father-cook-gardener or whatever.... The Trinity is, however, distinctly separate: Father... Son... Holy Spirit....

So I've never been able to understand how they're meant to be one God. And I've never received a satisfactory (non-vague) response to that question....

So to me there is either one Christian God..... or there are 3 separate Gods - maybe making up a 'team'... but they are separate.... which makes Christianity appear to be polytheistic.... it's just that Christians don't see it that way. The teaching is that we should worship one God and one alone.... the Christian God.... I know it doesn't say "Christian Gods"....

But I can't help but wonder if to non-Christians, who are comfortable with the concept of polytheism, it is apparent that Christianity is polytheistic.... it's just that Christians don't see it that way!

I am NOT saying that Christians are wrong... I am kind of supporting Howiemac's viewpoint...

Having said all that, I am with Space_Man in this:
[quote]I