Lucifer

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Seeker Man,

I appreciate the wealth of information your post has offered. Being a non-christian, that all sounds like mythology to me, but then most of the Bible strikes me as metaphor. After all, how could a book that was passed down and edited so many times have the only truth that so many Christian profess it to have? It's beautiful, don't get me wrong, but its only as good as its interpreter.

From my seat on the bus, as a skeptic, psychic and amateur String Theorist, I believe Lucifer is a physical representation of the potential evil that any of us can create. Whenever any of my clients ask me if I believe there is a devil, I have to say no, but only because I don't believe there is a God per sae. I believe all of us together, as one being, make up the synergy that has the power of create the complex systems of human life. We all have so much more power than we ever understand (or that the church would have us know). That same power allows us to make decisions that lead to "evil" things taking place.

When you get to the deepest molecular levels of human consciousness, molecules behave more like waves than they do particles. Our participation with those waves is part of what determines what gets created. When you look away from a wave, the particles show up all over the place. When you focus on it, the particles "unite" into form. So I suppose in essense I am saying not only is there no devil, but there really is no form as we would think. But then, isn't that the illusion of the temporal world and the glory of heaven being life AFTER death of the physical body?

I once was ask to help a man who molested his 9 year old daughter. During that time, I asked myself over and over, is there a devil? He was fairly Christian, and while he took responsiblity for his actions, he kept telling me that all he had to do was believe in Jesus as savior and he was fine. I found that attitude, in light of his predicament, fairly precarious. There are several other situations that have caused me to question my belief. In the end, though it always came down to a person's decisions. Even those who began the process thinking there was a devil. The healing that came was through their personal decisions.

Not sure that that sheds any light on things, but it's my two cents : )
SP

The Shadow of God
The first hypothesis deals with God having two sides to him. One was his 'bright' or divine side, and the second was his 'dark' or shadow side. This is where the idea of Satan comes in. This shadow side of God was the side through which God was able to communicate with mortals. If people were to see his bright side, that would be the end of them since His radiance would incinerate people on the spot. As Judaism evolved, so did these two sides of God. The Shadow became God's Word, then the Voice, and finally it became its own being complete with its own free will. This is where the trouble comes in. Now that the dark side of God had been completely removed from Him and hence separate, it began to take on the aspects that most of us are familiar with: destruction, betrayal, temptation. This caused the dark side of God to now become what we know as Satan. The word Satan, incidentally, is really a cut version of the Hebrew word Ha-Satan, which merely means adversary. By the time the Bible was fully written, Ha-Satan became synonymous with Satan and splits completely from God and becomes known as the Accuser. This Satan was released and found a new home and became to be known as the Prince of the Evil Spirits.

I have to say that I'm intrigued by this hypothesis... It makes me think of Yin and Yang... Now, I'm no expert on Yin and Yang, I had an idea of it being our light and dark sides (not actually good and bad). I looked it up and found this site:
The meaning of Yin-Yang: This is what is said:

This Simbol (Yin-Yang) represents the ancient Chinese understanding of how things work. The outer circle represents "everything", while the black and white shapes within the circle represent the interaction of two energies, called "yin" (black) and "yang" (white), which cause everything to happen. They are not completely black or white, just as things in life are not completely black or white, and they cannot exist without each other.

While "yin" would be dark, passive, downward, cold, contracting, and weak, "yang" would be bright, active, upward, hot, expanding, and strong. The shape of the yin and yang sections of the symbol, actually gives you a sense of the continual movement of these two energies, yin to yang and yang to yin, causing everything to happen: just as things expand and contract, and temperature changes from hot to cold.

As Christians we're taught things like 'God cannot tolerate evil'.... 'God is all good'.... 'God is perfect'.... etc etc. But I like the concept of him having a dark and light side. After all, we're taught that he made man in his own image.... we have a light and dark side.... could it not be conceivable that God has too?

Did your God alledgedly create everything? So didn't he create the devil as well? So isn't it a given God created the devil. If so, how can the devil be evil if created by your God?

Originally Posted by Barbara With

Did your God alledgedly create everything? So didn't he create the devil as well? So isn't it a given God created the devil. If so, how can the devil be evil if created by your God?

Very good point!!!!

[quote=Barbara With] Being a non-christian, that all sounds like mythology to me

I think humans invented the legend of Lucifer as a description of what happened when the Intellect of the human mind evolved. Without being human spirit lives in alignment with the whole. There is no intellect telling the spiritual being lies about separation. but when humans began to become self-aware, there appeared to be separation, from you and me, us from God, etc. The human mind's intellect began to develop separate from the mind of God. This separation was deemed evil. If there was a God that created it all there had to be a devil to explain the evil. I believe the only evil is contained within the decisions of human beings. The tsunami wasn't an evil decision. It was an act of nature that caused suffering. Different than a human deciding to do hard against another human. The latter involved the use of intellect. That is the only place evil can work.

[quote=Barbara With]I think humans invented the legend of Lucifer as a description of what happened when the Intellect of the human mind evolved

When the tsunami hit and hundreds of thousands of lives were lost, it wasn't because someone somewhere was doing evil and the byproduct was a tidal wave. It was an act of nature, and as painful as the results were, it isn't considered evil. However, when Hitler and the Nazis made the decision to kill millions of people, it was evil. The only place that evil exists is in the decisions that humans make. When humans decide to lie, to hurt each other or themselves, to live as if we aren't all one being (another lie) evil lives. And it is only through human decisions that evil can be avoided or irradicated.

Therefore evil is the byproduct of an ailing human intellect, cut off from the heart center. I don't believe in the devil, on evil decisions made by humans.

Space Man, I woke up in the middle of the night and realized your comment below about the simplistic nature of my statements about how the devil was superstition. That is exactly what I meant...and according to MY bible, the dictionary, that word means, "any belief, practice or right unreasonably held up by faith in magic, chance or dogma." There is no devil, but the devil becomes very real with the help of dogma.

I have been working on a new book I am calling, "Imagining Einstein." It's a series of channeled interviews with Albert Einstein. I am looking for someone who has quantum physics or M Theory background to read it and let me know if what he is suggesting is at all plausible (since I don't know squat about black holes and the details of how string theory works). I could just claim to be channeling Einstein, but in a practical world, everything needs to be explored to its utmost.

The dogma of religion upholds the devil as fact. I say its superstition. Besides, like I said, if your god created everything, he/she created the devil. How would that work?

In the end, it's what you make with your energy and your life. I don't care if anyone believes there is a devil, or if I am channeling the easter bunny. The end result of how we live our lives is what counts. And if someone sits around making choices that hurt people and then say it was the devil, I say grow up. In the end, when we all meet our maker, it will be our own actions that determine the state of our afterlife.