Andreas Moritz, Famous Vegan dies

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

That's hilarious! Thanks for the morning chuckle! :^)
Let's define "savage". My loving little Cairn Terrier, laying next to me as I type, is one of the most focused hunters when it comes to moles, mice, rabbits, cats... and yet she's one of the most gentle dogs I've ever owned.. and let's not forget the cute kitty... the humble house cat would die on a vegetarian diet.. I've watched our cat play for a long time with a captured mouse before it finally did the mouse in... she will then dissect the mouse and leave us the more cherished part of the catch (the organs) in the middle of the floor, for us as a gift...

All the other stuff we've been talking about is about humans messing around with the system in order to accentuate their greed... but in relation to animals themselves...well, they just are what they are.... :^)

One moment you say they're accomplished hunters and killers, then they're gentle as lambs...

Anyway, the topic is man and man is more than a beast. We have the spirit of God within. We're here to evolve our souls in wisdom, grace and beauty and we can only do that through love and service, not through violence and bloodshed.

[Tobi]

Stephen, thanks for the lovely pictures of your fur-family!

Knightofalbion -it's true what Stephen is saying, in a way. My dog Misty had great qualities of Soul, capable of a good deal of empathy and compassion...but she was a predator, and made it clear she was. Anything was prey to her, from flies to deer! (of course I stopped her chasing deer, but she was responsible for a number of rabbit deaths.) I never encouraged her to kill, as it upset me personally, but if she did -she did, and I cooked it up for her dinner, or cut it off the bone and gave it to her raw.
I recognised this wildness in her, honoured her for her ability to provide for herself to some extent on the physical plane. Sure -she didn't know it was a sad thing to kill another living Being -she was just following her instincts as a carnivore/omnivore to provide food, and as a female the instinct would be very deep -to provide food for her young also.
She was a Soulful dog with depth of character intelligence and emotion...but she was also a predator.

But while dogs can just about tolerate a vegetarian diet (they are pretty omnivorous) -cats definitely can't. Cats are not omnivores but carnivores. It's OK to put a little veg. in with their food -but no meat =no cat.

But us humans...now we can choose.
I prefer the compassionate way of eating.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Stephen, thanks for the lovely pictures of your fur-family!

Knightofalbion -it's true what Stephen is saying, in a way. My dog Misty had great qualities of Soul, capable of a good deal of empathy and compassion...but she was a predator, and made it clear she was. Anything was prey to her, from flies to deer! (of course I stopped her chasing deer, but she was responsible for a number of rabbit deaths.) I never encouraged her to kill, as it upset me personally, but if she did -she did, and I cooked it up for her dinner, or cut it off the bone and gave it to her raw.
I recognised this wildness in her, honoured her for her ability to provide for herself to some extent on the physical plane. Sure -she didn't know it was a sad thing to kill another living Being -she was just following her instincts as a carnivore/omnivore to provide food, and as a female the instinct would be very deep -to provide food for her young also.
She was a Soulful dog with depth of character intelligence and emotion...but she was also a predator.

But while dogs can just about tolerate a vegetarian diet (they are pretty omnivorous) -cats definitely can't. Cats are not omnivores but carnivores. It's OK to put a little veg. in with their food -but no meat =no cat.

But us humans...now we can choose.
I prefer the compassionate way of eating.

What Stephen is saying is what Stephen said, not me. The topic is man. You can't go around proclaiming your pet dog has a soul and declare and rejoice in its survival after 'death' and then actively advocate eating other animals who have a soul just the same as the pet dog without wandering into hypocrisy.
If souls count for nothing, why not eat human flesh? It's made of the same flesh and blood and spirit after all, just packaged differently.

Man was made in the image of God, in the spiritual sense. Our sacred duty is to care for and protect our 'lesser brethren', not turn them into dinner and ourselves into savages.
How would we perceive angels if they ate humans?

[Tobi]

Yes I feel strongly about that too Knight. Since I learned things about my dog after her "death" I have become more observant of all creatures, than I was before. And have noticed things about them that I wouldn't have noticed previously. And that was what led me to become Vegan.

I probably got a bit mixed up there -wandering off into "why dogs and cats eat meat"
The subject was US....Humans, after all. We are the ones who can choose from the standpoint of compassion above anything else. We don't HAVE to, but I know I had to.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

One moment you say they're accomplished hunters and killers, then they're gentle as lambs...
.

They are both... as are people... besides you said:

"Some animals eat flesh. (The savage ones, not the gentle ones.)"

You are promoting the need for a deep empathy toward animals and yet you define them in such a way that suggest that you're not sure what you're looking at? You actually seem to be angry on their behalf, but I've worked with animals both in the home and on the farm and it seems to me you're defending an ideal that isn't directly including the animal itself. There is severe corporate abuse of animals, and then there's the animals themselves... I keep reading what you are saying animals are, and it seems to be written my someone that was raised in the city....

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Man was made in the image of God, in the spiritual sense. Our sacred duty is to care for and protect our 'lesser brethren', not turn them into dinner and ourselves into savages.

But god kinda expected a notable amount of bloodshed on a regular basis of those who were "lesser" than us...

-------
Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). When Adam and Eve sinned, animals were killed by God to provide clothing for them (Genesis 3:21). Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to the Lord. Cain's was unacceptable because he brought fruit, while Abel's was acceptable because it was the “firstborn of his flock” (Genesis 4:4-5). After the flood receded, Noah sacrificed animals to God (Genesis 8:20-21).
http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html
------

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

How would we perceive angels if they ate humans?

Well, if it's done by an "angel" we'd probably be okay with it... Angels have been know to kill a whole bunch of first born children... and both christian and jews are okay with the drowning of most everyone and everything in the very damp-time of Noah... if the bible says it's okay, then as a species we seem to be cool with that on a number of levels... :^)

Isaiah 37:36-37
"Then the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning—there were all the dead bodies! So Sennacherib king of Assyria broke camp and withdrew. He returned to Nineveh and stayed there. "

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

You can't go around proclaiming your pet dog has a soul and declare and rejoice in its survival after 'death' and then actively advocate eating other animals who have a soul just the same as the pet dog without wandering into hypocrisy.

Or perhaps you have a very skewed idea of what the soul is, or why a soul would incarnate, and it's relevance in relation to various levels of exposure...
My dogs are wonderfully loving and would kill in an instant... what do they know that you don't?

Originally Posted by Tobi

Stephen, thanks for the lovely pictures of your fur-family!
.

Thanks Tobi!

Don't mind me and knight playing tag ball... As a Scorpio I like picking brains, and am kinda fascinated by what is surfacing in this case.... :^)

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Yes I feel strongly about that too Knight. Since I learned things about my dog after her "death" I have become more observant of all creatures, than I was before. And have noticed things about them that I wouldn't have noticed previously. And that was what led me to become Vegan.

I probably got a bit mixed up there -wandering off into "why dogs and cats eat meat"
The subject was US....Humans, after all. We are the ones who can choose from the standpoint of compassion above anything else. We don't HAVE to, but I know I had to.

Thank you, dear Tobi.

Respect to you.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

They are both... as are people... besides you said:

"Some animals eat flesh. (The savage ones, not the gentle ones.)"

You are promoting the need for a deep empathy toward animals and yet you define them in such a way that suggest that you're not sure what you're looking at? You actually seem to be angry on their behalf, but I've worked with animals both in the home and on the farm and it seems to me you're defending an ideal that isn't directly including the animal itself. There is severe corporate abuse of animals, and then there's the animals themselves... I keep reading what you are saying animals are, and it seems to be written my someone that was raised in the city....

Animals are on their own evolutionary path. Their souls will be born in human guise eventually and continue up the spheres of Light as we are striving to do.

Humans are more spiritually evolved than animals, though some people seem mindless of this.
It is the duty of the higher to care for the lower.

I seem 'angry'? and I seem to be someone 'raised in the city'. Your assumptions (both false) Stephen are much like your spirituality seems to be, fine in theory but falling short in practice.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

Or perhaps you have a very skewed idea of what the soul is, or why a soul would incarnate, and it's relevance in relation to various levels of exposure...
My dogs are wonderfully loving and would kill in an instant... what do they know that you don't?

Like you, no better.

They at least know no better. You should know better - and that is the difference and what makes it wrong.
With knowledge comes responsibility.