Andreas Moritz, Famous Vegan dies

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I don't doubt that some commercial crops are run in a way that is not ecologically sound. Though running them in a way that IS ecologically sound would be the logical answer.

Then make it so.... I bet we could fix all this if we would only agree on this forum... heehee

Ohhhh you'll like this one knightofalbion... it seems the soy bean is the problem in the Amazon, not beef.... :^)

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/eating-the-amazon-the-fight-to-curb-corporate-destruction-408238.html

Eating the Amazon:

The fight to curb corporate destruction Huge soya farms financed by Cargill, the largest privately owned company in the world, are the rainforest's new worst enemy

The scars are unmistakably man made. Hard-edged squares and rectangles,hundreds of acres across, hacked and burned out of the Amazon rainforest. The dark green of the canopy is lacerated with thin red lines - the illegal dirt roads that stitch together these giant clearings.
Seen from the air, this fearful symmetry marks out the battle lines of an invasion that has seen the humble soya bean emerge as the greatest threat to the world's most important rainforest.

much more at:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/eating-the-amazon-the-fight-to-curb-corporate-destruction-408238.html

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

A healthy plant-based diet would be better for humans, animals and the planet and there are no two ways about it.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/

Dogs Have a Natural and Undeniable Carnivorous Bias
From DNA studies, we know dogs evolved directly from the timber wolf somewhere around 15,000 years ago1.
And, of course, it should come as no surprise. Wolves are clearly carnivores.
So, by their very genetic pedigree, dogs also demonstrate similar and noticeable carnivorous traits. Their teeth, their digestive systems and their behavior clearly confirm this fact.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

The ones who are living longer are the ones who were raised on a pre-modern diet.. folks like my parents, one was raised on a farm the other one near one... this before chemicals and processed foods fully dominated the day... they got off-to a good start, and out of habits of cooking their own foods, many tend to maintain a relatively moderate lifestyle.... "those" are the folks who are living longer... while the death ages will be dropping before long.... Not only here but where you live as well... we enjoy watching the traveling show with Rick Steves as the narrator, he extensively travels Europe with a film crew and makes videos of what he finds. My wife and I have both noticed how "chubby to seriously fat" is becoming quite common in your neck of the woods... whatever we're doing over "here" seems to be happening "there" as well...

Many chronic diseases that used to only occur in older folks are now making it's way down into teens and some younger. The population is getting weaker with each new generation...

While the irony is, this whole "people living longer" thingy doesn't bolster your case much either... people eat way too much meat, and yet they're living longer? What's up with that? :^)


If you were eaten by a lion, then it spiritually would have been a subroutine of this lifetime that you'd been partly born to be eaten by that lion... Take some of the idealism out of the "why things are born" picture and there's the likelihood that animals are also born with a purposeful karma... unless you assume that such things, as souls go, is only applicable to the human species? That animals only operate off warm, fuzzy, and fluffy?

Animals have developed both symbiotic and food-based relationships, in regards to each other, since the beginning of organic development... just because some find this objectionable doesn't' mean it isn't so and won't continue.... kill off all humans and animals that eat other animals will continue to do so as a matter of course... only we humans would be foolish enough to think otherwise.... :^)

Okay, well, you started off by saying lifespan was falling because people were eating too much grain. Now we've established it's actually rising. And has been steadily rising since the war.
Around half children born in Britain today could live to 100.

So increasing birth rate and increasing longevity only magnifies the gravity of the situation and the urgency to take action.

78% of global agricultural land is already used for livestock production. If population increases by 28 - 40%, well, do the maths...
It would also add up to 7.2% greenhouse gas emissions.
Greater strain on dwlindling water and energy resources...

That's a strange theory on spiritual evolution. Animals are on their own evolutionary path. They aren't subject to the law of karma. Only when they reach the stage of evolution in human guise do they become subject to that.
And human spiritual evolution involves ascending the spheres of Light. Only love and service can achieve that, not killing and bloodshed.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

Ohhhh you'll like this one knightofalbion... it seems the soy bean is the problem in the Amazon, not beef.... :^)


Eating the Amazon:
The fight to curb corporate destruction Huge soya farms financed by Cargill, the largest privately owned company in the world, are the rainforest's new worst enemy

The scars are unmistakably man made. Hard-edged squares and rectangles,hundreds of acres across, hacked and burned out of the Amazon rainforest. The dark green of the canopy is lacerated with thin red lines - the illegal dirt roads that stitch together these giant clearings.
Seen from the air, this fearful symmetry marks out the battle lines of an invasion that has seen the humble soya bean emerge as the greatest threat to the world's most important rainforest.

An area of Amazonian rainforest the size of France has been destroyed and lost forever due to livestock production (beef for the burger chains)

Yes, soya production is a growing problem in the Amazon basin, but again livestock production is driving it.

85% of all global soya production is used for animal feed. (90% of soya production in the USA is used for animal feed)
Farmers can feed livestock GM soya for meat and dairy without having to declare it to the consumer.

Of the remainder, soya is used as a filler in many foods. Ironically, it is present as a filler in some processed meat products.
A large part goes to Asia, mainly China to make traditional soya foods. What's left is used for soya milk.

The best selling soya milk here in the UK is Alpro. The great majority of their soybeans are GM free from France. They don't use any from South America.

Under EU law if any GM soya is used in the production of soya milk on sale in the EU, it must be declared on the label. And none of them do as far as I'm aware.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Okay, well, you started off by saying lifespan was falling because people were eating too much grain. Now we've established it's actually rising. And has been steadily rising since the war.
Around half children born in Britain today could live to 100.

Not if they keep eating the chemically laden overly process foods that they're now exposed to... We haven't "established it's actually rising" ...for very good reasons the age of people dying will start falling and falling quickly. The people that are now living to 100 were not chronically ill much of their lives, while many today are... and the kids of todays chronically ill people will be in far worse shape than their parents.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

So increasing birth rate and increasing longevity only magnifies the gravity of the situation and the urgency to take action.

Study: Declining birth rate in some major economies shows signs of easing

By Norma Cohen | Financial Times,March 21, 2013
The decline in birth rates in some of the world’s largest economies shows signs of stalling, and in some cases reversing, a new study shows, giving some relief to governments struggling to finance old-age provisions with taxes from a shrinking workforce.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-21/world/37892172_1_fertility-major-economies-study

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

78% of global agricultural land is already used for livestock production. If population increases by 28 - 40%, well, do the maths...
It would also add up to 7.2% greenhouse gas emissions.
Greater strain on dwlindling water and energy resources...

Well... population may well be on the decline... so your math may be off.... besides that animals should Not be eating grain... period... so you're confusing the practice of corporations with the healthy well-being of our food sources...

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

That's a strange theory on spiritual evolution. Animals are on their own evolutionary path. They aren't subject to the law of karma. Only when they reach the stage of evolution in human guise do they become subject to that.
And human spiritual evolution involves ascending the spheres of Light. Only love and service can achieve that, not killing and bloodshed.

Says who? Animals eat animals so there must be a caveat... karma would have each taking turns... animals shed blood on a day to day basis, it's part of the food chain... we're part of the food chain... our bodies don't know a thing about how a spirit should evolve... our bodies respond to it's evolutionary pressures and derive nutrition in the manor in which it evolved...

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

Not if they keep eating the chemically laden overly process foods that they're now exposed to... We haven't "established it's actually rising" ...for very good reasons the age of people dying will start falling and falling quickly. The people that are now living to 100 were not chronically ill much of their lives, while many today are... and the kids of todays chronically ill people will be in far worse shape than their parents.

Study: Declining birth rate in some major economies shows signs of easing

By Norma Cohen | Financial Times,March 21, 2013
The decline in birth rates in some of the world’s largest economies shows signs of stalling, and in some cases reversing, a new study shows, giving some relief to governments struggling to finance old-age provisions with taxes from a shrinking workforce.
[url="http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2

Well... population may well be on the decline... so your math may be off.... besides that animals should [I]Not[/i] be eating grain... period... so you're confusing the practice of corporations with the healthy well-being of our food sources...

Says who? Animals eat animals so there must be a caveat... karma would have each taking turns... animals shed blood on a day to day basis, it's part of the food chain... we're part of the food chain... our bodies don't know a thing about how a spirit should evolve... our bodies respond to it's evolutionary pressures and derive nutrition in the manor in which it evolved...

Not so! Lifespans are increasing. We're living longer. That's why they keep increasing the pension age.

Population falling? Not here it isn't! And it isn't and won't be globally either. As the United Nations and everybody else agrees, world population will be 9 billion by 2050. (It's 7 billion now) If the increase in the next 37 years is the same as in the last 37 years the global population will be 9.85 billion.

Some animals eat flesh. (The savage ones, not the gentle ones.) But man is more than a beast. Man used to eat human flesh one time, but 'we' don't do it now. 'We' used to cast millions into slavery and burn people at the stake one time, but again 'we' don't do it now. It's called evolution, Stephen.

LOVE....

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Some animals eat flesh. (The savage ones, not the gentle ones.)

That's hilarious! Thanks for the morning chuckle! :^)
Let's define "savage". My loving little Cairn Terrier, laying next to me as I type, is one of the most focused hunters when it comes to moles, mice, rabbits, cats... and yet she's one of the most gentle dogs I've ever owned.. and let's not forget the cute kitty... the humble house cat would die on a vegetarian diet.. I've watched our cat play for a long time with a captured mouse before it finally did the mouse in... she will then dissect the mouse and leave us the more cherished part of the catch (the organs) in the middle of the floor, for us as a gift...

All the other stuff we've been talking about is about humans messing around with the system in order to accentuate their greed... but in relation to animals themselves...well, they just are what they are.... :^)

...

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Population falling? Not here it isn't! And it isn't and won't be globally either. As the United Nations and everybody else agrees, world population will be 9 billion by 2050. (It's 7 billion now) If the increase in the next 37 years is the same as in the last 37 years the global population will be 9.85 billion.

Decline by nation or territory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline

A number of nations today, stretching from North Asia (Japan) through Eastern Europe, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, and into Central and Western Europe, including Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Germany, Hungary, and now Italy now face long term population decline. Countries rapidly approaching long term population declines (but currently still growing, albeit slowly) include Greece, Spain, Cuba, Uruguay, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Austria and Lesotho.

Many nations in Western Europe (and the EU as a whole) today would have declining populations if it were not for international immigration. The total population of the continent of Europe (including Russia and other non-EU countries) already peaked around the year 2000 and as of 2004 is falling.[3]

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by StephenK

Decline by nation or territory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline

A number of nations today, stretching from North Asia (Japan) through Eastern Europe, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, and into Central and Western Europe, including Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Germany, Hungary, and now Italy now face long term population decline. Countries rapidly approaching long term population declines (but currently still growing, albeit slowly) include Greece, Spain, Cuba, Uruguay, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Austria and Lesotho.

Many nations in Western Europe (and the EU as a whole) today would have declining populations if it were not for international immigration. The total population of the continent of Europe (including Russia and other non-EU countries) already peaked around the year 2000 and as of 2004 is falling.[3]

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/