spirituality sucks

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes that is very true. However one first has to get to that understanding; that magic is happening. But just look at this forum: full of people who are unhappy and feel completely disconnected from life. Therefore the act of conscious recognition does in fact play into this process. It's not just a matter of auto-waking when the alarm rings.

I see it as if you are aware of it or not, you still get there in the end.
We all go thru these, unhappy and feel completely disconnected from life, plus a lot more at some stage, just apart of growing.
Some may see it, doesn't mean it's any easier.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by muffin

I see it as if you are aware of it or not, you still get there in the end.
We all go thru these, unhappy and feel completely disconnected from life, plus a lot more at some stage, just apart of growing.
Some may see it, doesn't mean it's any easier.

I agreed with you up until that last sentence. Seeing it absolutely makes it easier. As I wrote the other day in another thread: Every step on the spiritual knowledge path requires three steps on the self-understanding and moral development path. This really means learning control of one's mental, emotional and will life.

In other words, learning to see it and learning to control it, in order to learn to overcome it. It is via the conscious undertaking to control one's mental, emotional and will life that one is able to overcome unhappiness, and overcome feelings of being disconnected to life.

What you wrote is a whole other discussion. If you're simply arguing that it's okay to be unhappy, and okay to feel disconnected, then sure. And then it's also okay to be angry, and okay to be miserable, and okay to be wretched, and on and on. But that's not what I call spiritual work. That's doing nothing. That IMO is what running in his OP referred to when he spoke of spirituality as an "excuse for laziness."

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Baile

I agreed with you up until that last sentence. Seeing it absolutely makes it easier. As I wrote the other day in another thread: Every step on the spiritual knowledge path requires three steps on the self-understanding and moral development path. This really means learning control of one's mental, emotional and will life.

In other words, learning to see it and learning to control it, in order to learn to overcome it. It is via the conscious undertaking to control one's mental, emotional and will life that one is able to overcome unhappiness, and overcome feelings of being disconnected to life.

What you wrote is a whole other discussion. If you're simply arguing that it's okay to be unhappy, and okay to feel disconnected, then sure. And then it's also okay to be angry, and okay to be miserable, and okay to be wretched, and on and on. But that's not what I call spiritual work. That's doing nothing. That IMO is what running in his OP referred to when he spoke of spirituality as an "excuse for laziness."

Agree, all parts of learning and letting go.

I was just saying at some stage during our life times we would go thru these things, unhappy, disconnected, angry, miserable and other things, that we learn and teach our selves about.

As for seeing, what do you see life as, living in the body or something else ?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by muffin

As for seeing, what do you see life as, living in the body or something else ?

I see spirituality as experiencing what life is, and what it brings. This is where I agree with you. Where we differ perhaps is I believe it's important to learn how to consciously choose to engage in life in joy and gratitude. And it is something one chooses. Unhappiness happens in life, yes. But it often happens that one chooses to remain in that unhappy state. Whereas one can learn to transform an unhappy state of mind, back into a joyful one.

There is an awareness or consciousness component to living life that can help one overcome many of the hardships of life, if and when they happen. In simplest terms, it's the practice of centering: learning control of the mind and the emotional life. Every meditative path speaks of this. That's why I said I disagree with your statement that "knowing doesn't make it easier." It does make it easier. It is a consciousness-shifting technique one can learn and know; that transforms the mental and emotional life, and in the process helps make those difficult moments much easier

[Patrycia-Rose]

Originally Posted by Baile

It is a consciousness-shifting technique one can learn and know; that transforms the mental and emotional life, and in the process helps make those difficult moments much easier

I would be interested in knowing how a person would go about doing that.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Patrycia-Rose

I would be interested in knowing how a person would go about doing that.

Let's go dumpster diving and find out. Buried within running's "garbage can of nonsense" rant are a couple of jewels: "Yes. Bliss and silence is possible;" also, that the most important aspect in all this has to do with "...one's own identity, experience, and life." I will repeat again something I wrote the other day as part of a conversation on the topic of creating joy and happiness in one's life:

One reaches a point in their spiritual development journey where they learn control of their thinking, feeling and will responses. At that point, yes, one can freely choose to feel joy and enthusiasm. It happens to me constantly. I'm aware I'm unhappy for some reason -- at some perceived hurt -- and then I immediately stop myself and say "No! I will not feel that way." Life is too precious to waste a single moment feeling anything other than gratitude and appreciation. It is in that thought and moment that I immediately feel my attitude shift, and find myself back in my joyful state of being. This is a constant and regular occurrence for me.

This is after 40 years of self-exploration work. I could not do this 30 years ago, even 20 years ago. It's a learned talent so to speak. I was lucky I think (karmic path really). In my 20s, I found myself in a spiritual school that taught that spirituality is essentially about one thing only: self-development. Every step on the spiritual knowledge path, requires three steps on the self-understanding and moral development path. This really means learning control of one's mental, emotional and will life. I have held to this all these years, and it has formed the foundation of my spiritual work in this lifetime.

What drew me to running's thread was his assertion that healthy spirituality is much less about external knowledge, and all about inner wisdom. Examining, reflecting upon, and ultimately discovering one's identity. One's true self. The true self, once it is discovered and uncovered, is the ignition switch that inspires the human soul to rise above the ego or lower self's trivial hurts and imagined wrongs. When the human soul recognizes the true self, it has come home; has arrived at its spiritual center.

But not home in the spirit realm; this isn't about ascension and escape. Rather, home in the physical-material. Discovering the true self allows the human soul to finally relax into its life, into this incarnation. That is the silence aspect: the soul stillness that results. The true cause of our hurt and disconnect is the anxiety and stress of feeling alone and homeless in this life. But now the human soul has found a partner to share life with, and in that sense it's like falling in love. And in the same way someone in love wishes to always give their best to the other, it activates the will and desire to create joy. It inspires the human soul to step fully into life, to embrace life, to embrace joyful existence, which in turn manifests as overwhelming gratitude for being alive.

[Patrycia-Rose]

Thank you.

I understand the concept; I can transform a down moment sometimes if it's not too heavy; which is a start I guess. A medium I saw several years ago was encouraging me to do this. He called it "stepping into your power."

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Patrycia-Rose

I understand the concept; I can transform a down moment sometimes if it's not too heavy

My immediate response when I read that: Why so heavy? How is it your life becomes so heavy that it's difficult to deal with? There's a key component in this process that I recognized years ago. To overcome my "heavy life" -- and my life was heavy and burdensome years ago -- I had to restructure my life in such a way as to eliminate all the heaviness-creating aspects. Which I systemically did over the course of the next decade. My life now is truly light as a feather. And not by luck or chance. I am unburdened both in my physical world and in my soul. It is something I consciously set out to do, and accomplished. It can be done.

[Bohdiyana]

不要做毒品 - Bùyào zuò dúpǐn

[Lynn]

teachers and books are great tools. but it is not there as a replacement to ones own identity, experience, and life. they are only tools to reference at times. if it helps.

I so like this statement. Books and people are "tools" such as a deck of cards that give insights or a Medium or Healer. Tools in the tool shed of life to take what we can use for a time then return it.

Too many times ones seek readings or spiritual knowledge and use it as "carved in stone" facts for life's journey. We are individual beings that follow a common path nut too an individual path in life's journey.

I was raised with the Old Testament then told to read the New Testament. |I was like why two books ??? To find that there were way more than two books on the same topic in many languages and faiths.

I took something from all that I could read but never let it define me in "Facts" that part of me stays free flowing in the value of information that is out there.

I would not want to rely on something that is not carved in stone that does not erode away over time to base a life path on.

Lynn