Skepticism and the Paranormal

[Teulada]

Hi,

I am new here.
Not sure how to put this or if this is the right place even, but does anyone else out there *always* try to examine their paranormal experiences (i.e. all sort of strange dreams, premonitions, impossible coincidences, telepathy etc. ) from a scientific perspective?
I have had quite a few of these experiences and, although I am deeply convinced that they have a deeper meaning (but I do not know where the conviction comes from; maybe it just feels comfortable?), I also realise that each one of those experiences could be explained as my brain/mind playing tricks on me.

I am the only one here always putting experiences under the microscope?

What, would you say, is *irrefutable* proof that there is an afterlife?

Would love to hear your opinions,

Thank you

[wstein]

Not sure what you mean exactly.

I always consider the scientific angle of all experiences, paranormal or normal. I also always consider the 'spiritual' angle of all experiences. I do not get hung up on trying to 'force' an explanation from either view. I accept each equally as input.

Yes, many rare things/experiences are considered to be paranormal/metaphysical by people ?mostly? due to lack of knowledge about those things. The most common are 'orbs' in photographs/videos and thinking that sleep paralysis episodes are 'caused' by entities or ETs.

[organic born]

Question everything!

I've got a long list of things that I've experienced over the years. Out of body experiences, lucid dreaming, precognitive dreams, clearly defined telepathic exchanges, and yet with all of these I maintain some level of skepticism. I "know" that they happened, because I was there when they occurred, but what I'm not clear about is "what actually did happen"?

For me the precognitive stuff is always the most telling. I would occasionally witness events that "did" occur in exactly the way that I had visualized before hand (often in a dream with specific graphics, sounds and emotions) so for me those serve as some pretty heavy indicators of validation. But I'm still not sure what they imply. I've found that these precognitive situations can be altered, while occurring in real-time, with the outcome being quite different as a result. So what happened to the original event that I witnessed? Alternative timelines?, perhaps.

There's the event itself, but then there's what the event insinuates. To me the latter is the more interesting. The event itself is only the tip of the iceburg.

So be skeptical, but not necessarily in the way the most people would define skepticism. You've witnessed somethings that most people don't get a chance to be part of. So you have an intuitive connection to what occurred that has buried~within~it information that the non-experienced skeptics don't have. This puzzle for you is more complex.

I have seen my experiences being talked about by others who have gone through similar, or exactly the same thing. They usually match in ways that are often quite specific. So that to me is helpful as well.

Don't think of Skepticism as a black and white term. Hold it loosely and apply it proportionately.

[Teulada]

Originally Posted by wstein

Not sure what you mean exactly.

I always consider the scientific angle of all experiences, paranormal or normal. I also always consider the 'spiritual' angle of all experiences. I do not get hung up on trying to 'force' an explanation from either view. I accept each equally as input.

Yes, many rare things/experiences are considered to be paranormal/metaphysical by people ?mostly? due to lack of knowledge about those things. The most common are 'orbs' in photographs/videos and thinking that sleep paralysis episodes are 'caused' by entities or ETs.

Not sure what I mean myself....

I just seem to be forever swinging between the certainty that certain experiences I have made have their origins in another dimension and the certainty that there is no such other dimension and that it is all in my head. Just wondering if I am the only one

[Teulada]

Originally Posted by organic born

Question everything!

I've got a long list of things that I've experienced over the years. Out of body experiences, lucid dreaming, precognitive dreams, clearly defined telepathic exchanges, and yet with all of these I maintain some level of skepticism. I "know" that they happened, because I was there when they occurred, but what I'm not clear about is "what actually did happen"?

For me the precognitive stuff is always the most telling. I would occasionally witness events that "did" occur in exactly the way that I had visualized before hand (often in a dream with specific graphics, sounds and emotions) so for me those serve as some pretty heavy indicators of validation. But I'm still not sure what they imply. I've found that these precognitive situations can be altered, while occurring in real-time, with the outcome being quite different as a result. So what happened to the original event that I witnessed? Alternative timelines?, perhaps.

There's the event itself, but then there's what the event insinuates. To me the latter is the more interesting. The event itself is only the tip of the iceburg.

So be skeptical, but not necessarily in the way the most people would define skepticism. You've witnessed somethings that most people don't get a chance to be part of. So you have an intuitive connection to what occurred that has buried~within~it information that the non-experienced skeptics don't have. This puzzle for you is more complex.

I have seen my experiences being talked about by others who have gone through similar, or exactly the same thing. They usually match in ways that are often quite specific. So that to me is helpful as well.

Don't think of Skepticism as a black and white term. Hold it loosely and apply it proportionately.

Thank you for your very well thought-out reply.
In my case, skepticism usually prevails, although sometimes i slip into wanting to believe that what I experience is true and having its origin in a different dimension, some sort of after-life or something. But it's a slippery slope.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Teulada

Thank you for your very well thought-out reply.
In my case, skepticism usually prevails, although sometimes i slip into wanting to believe that what I experience is true and having its origin in a different dimension, some sort of after-life or something. But it's a slippery slope.

In my eyes, skepticism is always better than quickly designed assumptions and blind belief. Use your experience as an intuitive guide toward further studies. There is a lot of noise that calls itself "spiritual" out there on the web and in books. You may have been gifted a key, through your experiences, that will help you to navigate among all this more effectively.

[Teulada]

Originally Posted by organic born

In my eyes, skepticism is always better than quickly designed assumptions and blind belief.

absolutely

Originally Posted by organic born

Use your experience as an intuitive guide toward further studies.

Not sure where to look, though. I mean, the workings of the human mind .... what could more difficult to study?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Teulada

Not sure where to look, though. I mean, the workings of the human mind .... what could more difficult to study?

I often go with what comes to me spontaneously. About a year ago I was deeply curious about the observation that "all matter is energy". A number of books suddenly appeared out of nowhere (four books and one book on tape) and aligned in such a way that in the course of one day I was blessed with five differing perspectives specifically on that one issue. Since then most every book that I've read (and I read a lot) have yet to cover the same issue in that detail. Sometimes it just happens.

But you have to get yourself moving in that direction. The books came to me because I was actively in the stream to find out about all sorts of things, this one included.

Go online and start looking, I prefer books over web pages. Google what you think may help address your current interests and then see where the journey may take you. I'll sometimes be pursuing an interest and then stumble across something surprisingly unpredictable and be carried off into studies of surprising significance.

And There Is No Hurry! This is a lifetime pursuit. So strap yourself in and enjoy where it takes you. You may find like I have that around most every bend are new surprises!

[wmsm]

Our spiritual life is not only a mind condition, spirit also belongs to manifestation of presence.....a part of the spiritual awareness.

Of course our minds are affected via the condition of change, and hence change caused by a light spiritual presence is also known and advised by the condition of change itself.

I have experienced both circumstances, and I have also experienced the artificially introduced occult condition.....therefore know both experiences via the condition of the experience itself.

I had an androgynous communication that placed my own personal awareness into a condition of communication.

The presence of self communicating was a huge light presence, for in communication the body communicating communicates its own presence. Therefore when we receive communications from spirit we gain an informed communication itself.

The spirit communicating to me was huge.....loving kind and caring in a response that no human being nor meditating practice had ever given me as an experience.

The feelings I have never experienced since and the awareness that it gave me is an experience where our own words have little expression of the condition of the higher self.

We talk about love and kindness, yet these are human related and human owned experiences.....as I felt an experience beyond the natural state of my own presence, is why I know about spirit beyond our own creation of organic stated realizations.

This is how human beings gained a realization before that a higher presence is in fact communicating to our lower formed materialized spirit self.

As I have been attacked and conditioned to the lower spiritual realization that of phenomena and Christ stigmata....I know that the Christ is only a condition of spiritual human realization that does not belong to the higher presence.

Hence self spiritual experience is just as is stated.....a personal circumstance that only belongs to a shared community wanting to know that spirit is real by the sharing of personal experiences.

Sadly for us all these personal experiences were being reviewed by an evil minded occultist scientist who believed that he could access our own higher interactions.....which is why we all began to get attacked spiritually as they researched for what they believed was the Creator.

The purpose of skepticism has always been a purpose of control, a means for the controlling consensus to try to over-ride the personal experience and the personal choice.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Teulada

Hi,

I am new here.
Not sure how to put this or if this is the right place even, but does anyone else out there *always* try to examine their paranormal experiences (i.e. all sort of strange dreams, premonitions, impossible coincidences, telepathy etc. ) from a scientific perspective?
I have had quite a few of these experiences and, although I am deeply convinced that they have a deeper meaning (but I do not know where the conviction comes from; maybe it just feels comfortable?), I also realise that each one of those experiences could be explained as my brain/mind playing tricks on me.

I am the only one here always putting experiences under the microscope?

What, would you say, is *irrefutable* proof that there is an afterlife?

Would love to hear your opinions,

Thank you

I may be able to help you out by using my own 'anectdotal evidence' and by making an 'unsubstantiated claim' right here.

About 6 months ago, I purchased an item called a Spirit Box.

After using it for a while, I was getting some very interesting 'pareidolia' which could identify all held items, tell me my own full name, swear when I didn't and greet family members by name as they entered the room whilst the session was in progress.

I sought to obtain a 'confirmation bias' when I asked them if they just heard what I did...and they said 'yes, but that's just coincidence'.

So, armed with video footage of such sessions, I made my way to Youtube and uploaded all of this onto there...nobody seemed really interested though, because my videos were getting no views/replies...so I thought to myself "I know what I will do...I will go and join a Paranormal forum, find a section about 'Paranormal Investigation Equipment' and post my findings there instead."

I thought that would be the perfect place to do so, right?

Wrong! From the very outset, 8 posters started to attack me with links to skeptic blogs debunking the 'ghost box' (which I had already studied previously), telling me to use a grounded Faraday Cage (metal box), not to sweep through the stations and try and get these 'spirits' to say the same word 100 times in a minute and only then would they believe it'. This is a total impossibility because the spirits also rely on RF, just as radio signals do.

After that, I was told how I couldn't hear anything that didn't even exist in the first place so I was totally delusional.

After that, they told me that believing in spirits was akin to believing in Santa Claus, pink unicorns and invisible dragons.

Then, I was told to take the 'Randi Challenge' and prove it to him!.

...on and on this went, without a single one of them even looking at my sessions or commenting on any particular part of them.

They just said 'we don't need to watch it because all 'ghost boxes' are rubbish, so yours will be too'.

Yet on and on it still went ad nauseum for about 10 pages, with me left feeling deeply hurt and offended by all their mockery...and I started actually questioning my own experiences and everything...thinking I was just delusional and imagining it all too.

Until, in my online journeys, I came across this site called SCEPCOP "debunking the paranormal debunkers" and I thought to myself 'right...here we go then...let me call a 'straw man' when I see one'.

I woke up the next day to find my account had been banned from that forum, which led me to the ultimate realisation that I was just a 'hot potato' they didn't know what to do with.

...and now I am here after having this really horrible experience.

How do you know if it is 'real'? When you read and study every scientific explanation and skeptical argument out there from 'cognitive bias' to 'wishful thinking' to 'apophenia' to 'cherry picking of evidence' and all that this entails...then after doing all of that, you can emphatically say 'nope, none of that applies or is actually relevant in explaining what's going on here'.

Then, deep inside you know that your mind isn't just 'making this up' because your 'coincidence folder' just keeps on getting thicker and thicker.

I have stopped putting my own experiences under a microscope because I'm totally sick and tired of other people doing this for me...so now I have just accepted it and I don't even question it.

There is no 'irrefutable proof' of an afterlife, because the proof is in the pudding and not many like to eat pudding.

All the best.