Does everything start with an idea?

Originally Posted by wstein

The point was made that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.

Where is the evidence for that?
Whenever I challenge this idea in terms of actual experiences I get no response.

Not once in my life have I experienced myself as a spiritual being (emphasis on being) having a human experience but many a times I have experienced myself as a human being having a spiritual experience.

It is my contention that your quoted statement has no basis in experiental reality.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Rin

Where is the evidence for that?
Whenever I challenge this idea in terms of actual experiences I get no response.

Not once in my life have I experienced myself as a spiritual being (emphasis on being) having a human experience but many a times I have experienced myself as a human being having a spiritual experience.

It is my contention that your quoted statement has no basis in experiental reality.

I am sorry you have not been able to access spiritual beings. Many have experiences. There are many methods to interact and or experience spiritual beings. Some of the most common are OBE, deep mediation (or prayer), asking for guides who can show you, journeying, vision questing, seeking higher self.

Originally Posted by wstein

I am sorry you have not been able to access spiritual beings. Many have experiences. There are many methods to interact and or experience spiritual beings. Some of the most common are OBE, deep mediation (or prayer), asking for guides who can show you, journeying, vision questing, seeking higher self.

I am speaking about experiencing yourself as a spiritual being to the virtual exclusion of the human body and its sensory apparatus. With all the experiences you mention the human senses seem to remain primary, that is why everything is reported in terms of seeing, hearing or feeling. If we were spiritual beings I would expect to have one or two additional faculties.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Rin

I am speaking about experiencing yourself as a spiritual being to the virtual exclusion of the human body and its sensory apparatus. With all the experiences you mention the human senses seem to remain primary, that is why everything is reported in terms of seeing, hearing or feeling. If we were spiritual beings I would expect to have one or two additional faculties.

Assuming you are a spiritual being, then all these methods apply to you as a spiritual being too. In addition to my additional senses I have heard numerous stories of others that gain ( or suddenly have access to) ‘beyond human abilities’. Perhaps you have assigned all ‘paranormal’ abilities as rare but still human in origin? Being able to perceive across time and across dimensions or possession would be the sort of things I am talking about here.

It’s up to you if you wish to shut down your human or human like senses when in spiritual access. Especially when in deep meditation, all humanness can drop away. One can have no sense of the physical nor any sense of a body at all. When ‘in’ material realms (like where Earth is) there is still perception of physicality. As such, one can ‘see’ objects and scenery but it in no way comes through ‘eyes’. So even though the ‘view’ is similar because the same thing is being observed, the means are not at all the same.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Rin

...we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.

Where is the evidence for that?
Whenever I challenge this idea in terms of actual experiences I get no response.

Not once in my life have I experienced myself as a spiritual being (emphasis on being) having a human experience but many a times I have experienced myself as a human being having a spiritual experience.

It is my contention that your quoted statement has no basis in experiental reality.

It does in my experiential reality.

Just keep going....


Xan

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by wstein

An idea requires a consciousness, mind, brain or something similar.

The point was made that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. This accounts for all the beings. However, where did all that stuff come from before there were any beings here (and in other universes).

Seems to me that one can create simply by expressing self without any need for an 'idea' first.

Ha! So, what do you want to create?

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by Rin

Where is the evidence for that?

It is my contention that your quoted statement has no basis in experiental reality.

That would be 'cuz none of us are dead yet, and we, like it or not, created our physical form to experience the physical.

The only proof anyone has is faith. The only way we get faith is to believe that it is true. How we each come to that truth is as individual as our selves.

If you don't believe, that is fine. I think some people will be mighty surprised someday.

However, since I believe that I can access other senses beyond the 5, why not? Why wait until you "croak"?. Why not have that experience?

Thought creates form. Everything besides nature on this planet someone thought of first. Someone had the thought to create the planet, the Universe, the multi-verses...We are all a piece of God, and everything, together, make up God. So, while I don't believe we ARE God, we are a part of God and we have been gifted with free will. So, my opinion on the answer to the question is, All That Is created us all, and we are inside All That Is.

Originally Posted by wstein

An idea requires a consciousness, mind, brain or something similar.

The point was made that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. This accounts for all the beings. However, where did all that stuff come from before there were any beings here (and in other universes).

Seems to me that one can create simply by expressing self without any need for an 'idea' first.

Observation:
An idea is a creation of self expression.
I seriously doubt personal creation does not occur without forming an idea in one's mind first.
Whether one is aware of these thoughts or not.

Originally Posted by wstein

I am sorry you have not been able to access spiritual beings. Many have experiences. There are many methods to interact and or experience spiritual beings. Some of the most common are OBE, deep mediation (or prayer), asking for guides who can show you, journeying, vision questing, seeking higher self.

Assuming you are a spiritual being, then all these methods apply to you as a spiritual being too. In addition to my additional senses I have heard numerous stories of others that gain ( or suddenly have access to) ‘beyond human abilities’. Perhaps you have assigned all ‘paranormal’ abilities as rare but still human in origin? Being able to perceive across time and across dimensions or possession would be the sort of things I am talking about here.

It’s up to you if you wish to shut down your human or human like senses when in spiritual access. Especially when in deep meditation, all humanness can drop away. One can have no sense of the physical nor any sense of a body at all. When ‘in’ material realms (like where Earth is) there is still perception of physicality. As such, one can ‘see’ objects and scenery but it in no way comes through ‘eyes’. So even though the ‘view’ is similar because the same thing is being observed, the means are not at all the same.

Originally Posted by Xan

It does in my experiential reality.

Just keep going....

Originally Posted by sound

What are your thoughts surrounding the 'idea' that everything starts with an idea lol ...

Observation:
It seems, as i examine wstein and Xan's posts, that not everything starts with an idea.
It seems that a person first has an experience, then they create ideas as to what they experienced.

First a volcano erupts, then a person has the idea that some god is not happy.
A person has an unusual experience and then concludes it's an OBE, or they met Jesus, angels, higher beings, connected with Oneness.

Unusual - Being definitely out of the ordinary and unexpected; slightly odd or even a bit weird.

Unusual experience: uncommon information coming in through the senses, or unusual brain activity induced by things such as chemicals, meditation, sleep deprivation, fasting, etc.
Anything that alters or stresses, pushes beyond the normal functioning of the body.

Xan has ideas about her experiences and is convinced she has reached a high state that
she, i think, lovingly encourages those that haven't experienced such things, to keep going.

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

Observation:
An idea is a creation of self expression.
I seriously doubt personal creation does not occur without forming an idea in one's mind first.
Whether one is aware of these thoughts or not.

Or is creation the idea self expressed....

If you look at where ideas come from before they enter the mind...one could state otherwise.