Advice Around Talking to TF's (now confirmed) Ex-Wife?

[RedBasket]

I've had confirmation that my twin is now divorced and I edited down my original post-TMI.

His ex wife is in pain. Hope you send wishes for heart-healing to all who suffer over love and lost love.

Thanks

[hineahuone]

I am sure my twin has let his karmic relationship go and they are both suffering. I am feeling melancholy at the moment as part of me is experiencing this breakup as well. It feels like he is sending me the breakup energy and so I am listening to sad songs and purging my little heart out too.

[intj123]

why would you want to talk to her?
I wouldn't if I were you.

[bluebird21]

You must feel mixed emotions at this time. I know what it's like to care for your twin's partner/ex. The way I think of it is them breaking up with them is what they'd do if they truly love them - it's setting them free to possibly meet their twin flame/true love! I believe this is all for the highest good and it's OK to cry as you will be feeling similar emotions as your twin.

[RedBasket]

I saw her tonight and we talked at length. Before seeing her I considered it could be a "no win" situation for me personally. I was either going to learn that she was aware of our connection and that it played a role in the demise of their marriage (and I would have felt guilty) or I'd learn that my connection to him was not on her radar and was no big deal (and I'd feel like it had all been in my head). I also knew I couldn't take everything she said at face value.

During chatty stories of her current life and their split, she said about 3 times in a magnanimous tone: "I don't know what really went on between the two of you, nor do I care." I think I finally said "nothing improper."

He is the one that ended things after their second separation.

He moved in with a new girl friend months after they split. On a gut level, I picked up on this when we had our falling out.

He lied to me when he texted me that they are divorced. They are just legally separated. I don't know why he did this, but I think he'll feel "busted" when he realizes I know he lied.

I do see his behavior through the lens of narcissism. I feel a great deal of sympathy for her because, textbook style, she was discarded by him and he moved on to a new love interest quickly.

Despite accepting the aspect of his narcissism, in a spiritual way, he was nonetheless the catalyst for my own personal awakening. It is still weird to realize he just doesn't care about me. It is reliving that ancient hurt from two detached, narcissistic parents who just didn't love me the way I imagined they did ... they just couldn't and didn't.

I feel for her. She does still love him. This broke my heart to realize.

[bluebird21]

My heart goes out to you, Red. I think this is a part of your spiritual awakening, a very unpleasant part. You are being forced to fully feel that primordial pain of not getting the love you needed as a child. Freedom is waiting for you on the other side. Big hug and solidarity. ❤️

[Blissful]

Originally Posted by bluebird21

You must feel mixed emotions at this time. I know what it's like to care for your twin's partner/ex. The way I think of it is them breaking up with them is what they'd do if they truly love them - it's setting them free to possibly meet their twin flame/true love! I believe this is all for the highest good and it's OK to cry as you will be feeling similar emotions as your twin.

Amazing answer my lil bluebird and I totally feel the same way! I think we care deeply because of knowing them in some way too. In the long run its for the best.

Awww Red ... are you sure he's narcissistic or could that assessment be a projection from your past?? I ask this coz if he's narcissistic then logically you would be too and that doesn't make sense because you just don't seem to be like that... at all! Your care, empathy and intuition shines thru. I feel when we are not in touch with our inner self we just fill up the holes in our heart with whatever comes along and if he's doing that and running from himself I have only empathy for him coz there are a lot of people like that out there. I was married to a true narcissist so I know how they are actually. Him setting her free untraumatized is not what they do imo... I still live in terror of him (especially internally, weighing every move I make in life) even though things seem fine for the sake of our children, and I know that I am scarred for life.

tc
-Blissful

[Sugar-n-Spice]

Be careful not to draw any drastic conclusions during this time Red. *hugs*

[RedBasket]

Originally Posted by Blissful

Are you sure he's narcissistic or could that assessment be a projection from your past?? I ask this coz if he's narcissistic then logically you would be too and that doesn't make sense because you just don't seem to be like that... at all!

Thank you guys for your support! And thank you for reminding me not to jump to the conclusion he is a narcissist.

Even the wife said last night what a kind heart he has and that he is a really good guy (though immature) and that she'll always love him. He isn't putting up facebook photos of his new girlfriend or bringing her to anything with mutual friends, she says. She strongly doesn't think he ever physically cheated on her with anyone, nor does she think he started it with this women until they were done. I guess she is the one that didn't want to finalize a divorce for financial reasons when he said he was ready to end the marriage to her. That's why they did a legal separation. "We'll finalize a divorce if either of us wants to marry again," she said. I could tell it gave her tremendous peace of mind to learn "nothing improper" happened between him and me [context of me meaning physically crossing the line was clear]. I think she knew something meaningful between our souls happened because she was looking to me for validation every time she spoke of him in such terms of love and I just smiled empathetically with each detail she shared about him. We were talking about the long, gradual process of detaching from our marriages, and how to do this with our kids and our partners' extended family members we each care about still (both she and I still host the men's families for meals and I even went on vacation last month with 15 people from his family). I said at one point "Yes, I still miss him emotionally ... I still feel the emotional connection is strong. How about you?" And I was talking about the emotional connection to my own husband. She stammered as she started to speak and was looking at me funny and I realized she thought I was saying I still feel the emotional connection is strong between me and her husband. And I just said, "you know, I mean ..." and couldn't finish the sentence to say my husband's name, for to do so would have been to admit that we both saw a possible meaning that I was talking about her husband.

We both talked about her and my narcissistic parents. She was fierce as a kid and called them out on it and got angry ... this helped her a lot in life. I admired it a lot and told her if I could go back in time I would have developed more of her attitude myself. Turns out I'm like each of her sisters in regards to the parents - denying my own needs while nurturing to them. "It is all about loving yourself!," she said sweetly.

She knew so many private details of me, my interests, and my life that she could have only known through her husband. I was sort of touched to hear her say them to me because it made me realize he shared my stories and situations with her and kind of brought her on board in terms of empathy. It didn't feel like a violation of trust but made me feel he cared.

I was trying to gleen if he used the silent treatment on her or if he has done this with others. I brought up how my mom does this to me. She didn't extend it to her husband. So she probably doesn't know about all the no replies, the phone hangups, ignoring me when we passed on the street. These are the behaviors that made me feel like I was discarded by a narcissist until I experienced the "thaw" with him a few weeks ago. I still don't know how to process it all. Do victims of narcissists and their discard ever get confused and think the narcissist still cares about them despite their avoidant behavior? I don't know if my "thaw" was just him "hoovering."

Last night I felt sad thinking he just doesn't care about me in a repetition of my childhood situation. But even hearing he is with a new woman and was not honest with me about his legal status, that news has softened in my thinking. I really can't know if he cares about me or not at this stage. I feel in my heart that he still does, but question my mental health for thinking it in terms of his behavior this past year. But I do know that I care about his wife and she cares about me. This was a good feeling. Some how talking to her made me feel there had been a deep connection between him and me - she made it seem like it had been real. But then again I look at the facts and think I'm insane for imaging there is any connection there still when he is waking up in another woman's bed this morning that is neither me nor his wife!

[Blissful]

Originally Posted by RedBasket

I was trying to gleen if he used the silent treatment on her or if he has done this with others. I brought up how my mom does this to me. She didn't extend it to her husband. So she probably doesn't know about all the no replies, the phone hangups, ignoring me when we passed on the street. These are the behaviors that made me feel like I was discarded by a narcissist until I experienced the "thaw" with him a few weeks ago. I still don't know how to process it all. Do victims of narcissists and their discard ever get confused and think the narcissist still cares about them despite their avoidant behavior? I don't know if my "thaw" was just him "hoovering."

Last night I felt sad thinking he just doesn't care about me in a repetition of my childhood situation. But even hearing he is with a new woman and was not honest with me about his legal status, that news has softened in my thinking. I really can't know if he cares about me or not at this stage. I feel in my heart that he still does, but question my mental health for thinking it in terms of his behavior this past year. But I do know that I care about his wife and she cares about me. This was a good feeling. Some how talking to her made me feel there had been a deep connection between him and me - she made it seem like it had been real. But then again I look at the facts and think I'm insane for imaging there is any connection there still when he is waking up in another woman's bed this morning that is neither me nor his wife!

You know Red, I'm wondering if he's doing it 'for your good'... coz that's what me and BB have been doing back and forth. The silent treatment is a way we are, especially when trying not to trigger each other over and over... its not that we don't love each other deeply... and we realize it. In fact I treat him like a stranger very very often and I had to explain to him that it was because I just can't control my emotions when I am in front of him (I feel like running into his arms, every single day, either joyfully or in tears... I think I once posted about it)... so to avoid all the drama we just act like strangers, initially at least, till the urges die down. And totally silent and out-of-sight is what I'm going to go... do you mean he's gonna think I'm avoidant and a narcissist?? (lol)... I doubt it, he knows me too well!! Neither will I the other way round. Ask yourself deep inside why is it he's doing what he is doing... I am sure you will be able to understand better with your inner guidance.

tc
-Blissful