The 23rd Psalm - An Absolute Spiritual Masterpiece

Simpleman

Yes, Gods Love.

The world usually says love but they mean (needy, fleshly, twisted love ) a Love that stings or crushes because the needs don't get met. Or they throw around a word (love) to manipulate.

Yes I always mean God's Love, Christ's Love, Holy Spirit's Love flowing through us. But we also must perfect Love since we come out of the worlds system of love, unless we are raised in a perfect home but it still needs perfected. Then perfected Love casts out fear.

I lived a lot of my life in a fear that was just always present to were it felt normal and my conscience was seared and my heart stoney. Trauma will do that, so will a lot of things.
But God!!!!

I still strive to perfect Love,kindness,Faith,Mercy,Forgiveness with Gods help and guidance through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

but I can't deny what the Word of God says... I intend to find a church with people that can see the truth..

Neither can I, but I can choose not to believe that what others say is the "Word of God", necessarily is, even if it was written down and many others chose to believe it. It may be just their own words which they are contributing to God to give themselves greater worldly power over me.

Well, then I wish you good luck in finding such a church. Hopefully, you know the truth? Else how will you judge the churches you find as you are seeking? They all claim the truth. Before I go sawing up all of my boards, I like to make sure my tape measure is accurate, or at least not off by too much.

Matthew 7:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Neither can I, but I can choose not to believe that what others say is the "Word of God", necessarily is, even if it was written down and many others chose to believe it. It may be just their own words which they are contributing to God to give themselves greater worldly power over me.

Well, then I wish you good luck in finding such a church. Hopefully, you know the truth? Else how will you judge the churches you find as you are seeking? They all claim the truth. Before I go sawing up all of my boards, I like to make sure my tape measure is accurate, or at least not off by too much.

I have no desire to elevate myself using the Word of God, this is not my intention, not at all.People who do such things are not disciples of Christ.

The truth is that the God of the Bible is the real and only true God.I don't think this is about judging the churches, but finding one that speaks the truth.I am born and raised as an orthodox but I believe that I am a believer in Christ, not a member of a denomination.

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

I have no desire to elevate myself using the Word of God, this is not my intention, not at all.People who do such things are not disciples of Christ.

Nor is my intent to accuse you of doing so. My point is that there are those who call themselves disciples of Christ, and claim the words they speak are the words of God. Some of which lived hundreds and even thousands of years ago. They hunted and persecuted those who claimed otherwise, and the winners decided what would be in or not in the Bible. Which they then declared to be the one true word of God, and proceeded to burn those who said differently. I expect they would wish to burn me, as I dispute that everything they say is the word of God, is. I do not claim to know for certain what is or is not the word or even the will of God, but I am quite convinced that they cannot claim to either. People have a tendency to confuse antiquity and popularity with truth.

The truth is that the God of the Bible is the real and only true God.

That is the truth as you see it. That sounds simple enough. If that is all you want them to say, they you will have many to choose from. Of course they generally disagree on just what the "God of the Bible" is, and what that God's word is and means, so you may not want to look to closely, or it may not seem so simple anymore.

I don't think this is about judging the churches, but finding one that speaks the truth.I am born and raised as an orthodox but I believe that I am a believer in Christ, not a member of a denomination.

Yet judge you must. If not for all, then at least for yourself. They all speak differently, their beliefs often conflict, and they all claim to know the truth. The one you find will be the one you judge to be telling the real truth as you see it. To complicate things even more, ever since they stopped burning the unorthodox at the stake, there are more churches out there then ever, saying all sorts of things. Good luck with your search for the one speaking the truth.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

I understand what you are trying to tell me... but I can't deny what the Word of God says... There's nobody who is trying such things, I saw the evil with my very own eyes and this changed me completely... I think for myself, I read the Bible on my own, I don't go to priests and so on.I intend to find a church with people that can see the truth..

i dont doubt this testimony, there is a dark side i guess a lot of ppl here have come across. the toronto blessing thing if you've ever witnessed it is from that side i think, scary stuff. a lot online about this.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Not to be nit picky, but I think the good Samaritan was the one who helped the man (a Jew I would assume) attacked by robbers. The point being, IMU, is that although he was not a Jew, the Samaritan was the one who best exemplified the will of God through his acts of love and kindness (good works). Which is why I assume you included the story here. I think you thinks well when you suggest "systematic theology may be the enemy here in the end", it is indeed a thing of this world, and often used for vain and worldly human purposes. This narrative of Jesus being crucified as a ransom payment for forgiveness of my sins (but only if I am a Christian, otherwise I am condemned for them), I have always found to be a bizarre notion. Much more Old Testament (allegiance to the King) ish, then New Testament, (the Kingdom is within you) ish. After all, if one can know God and attain heaven through good deeds and acts (done for goodness sake ), without swearing allegiance to a prescribed dogma, then is this not an existential threat to the church and those (Scribes, Pharisees, Pastors, and Popes) who systemized the theology in the first place. Perhaps those who know God, do good deeds out of love and compassion for all, because they have the knowledge of both good and evil and choose the former, and therefore already have the Kingdom of Heaven within. Perhaps those who are trying so hard to get you to believe they control the keys to heaven, are just blocking the view of a door that has no lock.

I think the idea Jesus can effect salvation, or conversion is central to the faith, primarily through the cross and his words, but reducing this to a binary formula... when Jesus spoke in parables and not rigid patterns...

But i think you mention the cross and people just think 'atonement'. Thats not all it was, it was the cross that enabled the Holy Spirit to be set free into the world. The same Spirit that is in Jesus. If you emphasise this it becomes clearer the cross is not about saving doomed people from eternal hell, but a wonderful gift of life far beyond even a normal good life. We were mediocre before, but now children of God, or try to be. It really devalues the gift when the gift only saves you from something worse than this world but doesnt lift you up into somewhere special in this life far beyond it. I just think we all inherit the mess of the early church trying to figure this out, and scripture alone is just part of the puzzle not all, (Catholics have their traditions too, what didn't get written down?) Anyway i probably havent put this very well.

Yes, there is good and evil. Though it is rare for evil to actually know itself as such. But then according to Genesis, we were all sentenced to life because we wanted the knowledge of good and evil and so ate from the tree. How much can one learn about good and evil in the Garden of Eden? One can learn about evil by being told about it, but not as much as by experiencing it. And of course one cannot have a more direct experience of something than one gets by becoming it.

[davidmartin]

well sure Ketzer, I have seen stuff that forces me away from naïve non-dualism that is my preference. I've seen stuff. I feel sorry for those naive people who mess around with astral type spirituality thinking evil doesn't exist, they get messed up. But, despite this... Good wipes it out. Focusing on it, empowers it.
The imitation is never as good as the real thing.

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

i dont doubt this testimony, there is a dark side i guess a lot of ppl here have come across. the toronto blessing thing if you've ever witnessed it is from that side i think, scary stuff. a lot online about this.

Thank you davidmartin, I am telling you the truth, the pure truth, in the last few days I was assaulted by nightmares, I have almost every time I go to sleep 5 nightmares, very horrible nightmares, I know I am in a spiritual warfare and it all started with my return to God but I am happier than ever, it's hard to describe what I feel, these nightmares have no effect on me :)

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Simpleman

Yes, Gods Love.

The world usually says love but they mean (needy, fleshly, twisted love ) a Love that stings or crushes because the needs don't get met. Or they throw around a word (love) to manipulate.

Yes I always mean God's Love, Christ's Love, Holy Spirit's Love flowing through us. But we also must perfect Love since we come out of the worlds system of love, unless we are raised in a perfect home but it still needs perfected. Then perfected Love casts out fear.

I lived a lot of my life in a fear that was just always present to were it felt normal and my conscience was seared and my heart stoney. Trauma will do that, so will a lot of things.
But God!!!!

I still strive to perfect Love,kindness,Faith,Mercy,Forgiveness with Gods help and guidance through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

You are blessed by God for knowing of the true love :)

Ezekiel 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

When we come to God we all come with a heart of stone, we feel it, we know it, but for the shake of His glorious name He gives us a new heart and a new spirit, He is rich in mercy and always waiting for us with His arms wide open!

Everybody, read the story of the prodigal son, it's amazing and it's told by Jesus Himself!