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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #21  
Old 22-08-2014, 09:59 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoSandwich
Alec,

Meditation isn't "all about being calm". However, it is about stilling your mind and being in the moment because this allows truth to cut through the machinations of our mind. Sometimes this truth will present itself and cause pleasurable spiritual states, but it could also present itself during meditation as painful confrontations with deep spiritual pain. The goal always is truth and seeing things in the world and in your mind simply as they are. "Being calm" as you call it is just a way to get there... but through seeking pleasure, you may be making yourself more frustrated (I only have pleasurable meditations a certain percentage of the time, as does any meditator) while at the same time not growing as much spiritually, because you might start to see any painful meditation as a failure (when it really might be just as valuable as something pleasurable).

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich

Calm and still are basically the same, but semantically different.

Even though there are many meditation techniques that use imagination or chants or special breathing methods, I think the best methods are based in seeing things as they are... However; keeping a calm balance of mind is integral to this kind or technique. It has two elements. The first is being aware of what is happening in this moment, and the second is keeping the neutrality or stillness or equanimity of mind. These two go together.
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  #22  
Old 22-08-2014, 11:33 AM
TaoSandwich
Posts: n/a
 
Gem,

I actually do agree with you that calm and still are the same thing. What I was trying to express was the fact that the stillness in my opinion, is for the purpose of letting the mind open up and grow in a natural way (instead of simply stillness for stillness' sake). There are probably some philosophical differences among various schools, but in my practice, I see the calm as the method and all that comes from it (amusingly enough, including calmer action in day to day life) as the fruits of the meditation. What are your thoughts?

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich
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  #23  
Old 22-08-2014, 01:28 PM
Hypnoticalec
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoSandwich
Gem,

I actually do agree with you that calm and still are the same thing. What I was trying to express was the fact that the stillness in my opinion, is for the purpose of letting the mind open up and grow in a natural way (instead of simply stillness for stillness' sake). There are probably some philosophical differences among various schools, but in my practice, I see the calm as the method and all that comes from it (amusingly enough, including calmer action in day to day life) as the fruits of the meditation. What are your thoughts?

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich
Totally agree. That's what I meant when I said that meditation is not just calm, it must create awareness of ourselves which causes an impact on day to day life. It also heightens senses and simplify point of views; making them easy to understand but highly mature. Cheers.
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  #24  
Old 23-08-2014, 09:51 AM
Prity
Posts: n/a
 
Book1 What are those 7 chackras?

How to activate those chackras?
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  #25  
Old 23-08-2014, 02:02 PM
TaoSandwich
Posts: n/a
 
Alec,

From understanding that, you are quite the smart-Alec :P. As for the experience seeking part, I think that the reason you are meeting a bit of resistance to that philosophy on here is because of the endless pain of seeking and desire. Taking a drug as innocuous as coffee has a crash (and a craving) after the "high", so seeking drugs for experiences, while it may be fun adds more destabilizing forces to life, even if it feels AMAZING. Even though the physiology isn't the same, this can be said psychologically of meditation too IF you emphasize the blissful states over awareness. In my experience, each time you increase the things you seek after and desire, you slowly make your life more of a living hell... There are a few things that happen when you seek things outside the self:

1. You either might not get them, which will make you angry...
2. You might get them and want more of them...
3. You might get them and then live in constant fear of losing them
4. You might get them, realize that they don't fulfill you like you expected and start desiring something else

Taoist philosopher and prince Liu An likens this to the curse of sitting with a fine feast of rich foods arrayed before you, but starving because each thing that you put in your mouth turns to ashes.

The opposite of this is not meditation (although meditation is really good at helping you to realize these things), but enjoyment of the simple and blissful moments of life: the embrace of someone you care about, a good meal, a nice moment of meditation (and/or parkour in your case). However, once you start spending energy DESIRING the next embrace, DESIRING fine foods, DESIRING the rush and freedom of parkour you are only harming yourself. Perhaps the happiest way to live is to live in enjoyment, not desire. Here is something to ponder: only a small number of people EVER even realize this difference! Turning this into a reality is a slow process, but I am sure many people on this forum are on this path and can tell you about how much better their lives have become.

From the fact that your body is still young enough for Parkour, I'd guess you are relatively young. I started seeking (exploring meditation, different spiritualities and philosophies, etc) in high school, but my true spiritual journey, when I stopped wandering and took the first steps along the path that I'm traveling now only began when I was 20. Perhaps you can start earlier and get there more quickly than me.

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich
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  #26  
Old 23-08-2014, 02:52 PM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,135
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoSandwich
Gem,

I actually do agree with you that calm and still are the same thing. What I was trying to express was the fact that the stillness in my opinion, is for the purpose of letting the mind open up and grow in a natural way (instead of simply stillness for stillness' sake). There are probably some philosophical differences among various schools, but in my practice, I see the calm as the method and all that comes from it (amusingly enough, including calmer action in day to day life) as the fruits of the meditation. What are your thoughts?

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich

The practice is to cultivate the stillness of mind... if the mind isn't kept still, and instead starts reacting to the experience, it interupts the meditation and true to say that prevents the mind from open and grow, but the practice of stillness is both the practice and the purpose.

The basic reason for the meditation is make life better, and life is made better by reducing suffering. Suffering stems from 'the I thought'. When the sensation occurs it is acknowledged or noticed to be. there's an inate instinct that makes a reflex response such as withdrawing from a flame, and up until here there is no 'I thought', but out of identification with the senses, the person believes this sensation is happening to 'me', and that's when they have a reaction response. That reaction unsettles the peace of mind and there begins the suffering.

It's easy to recognise the suffering of unwanted sensations. That's simple. But, after a bit of practice, one starts to notice really pleasant experience, and same, a reflex occurs, and then 'I' start to cling on, and after it passes I want it again, and that's where the suffering begins... pleasure is a more complicated suffering.

The meditation remains right at the moment of acknowledgement or noticing, and never enters into the 'I thought' and reaction that disrupts peace of mind.

So... the practice of stillness cultivates stillness... the practice and the purpose are the same... the mind will open up and it will grow, but that is within the experiential realm, the temporal realm, and It refers to an imagined future which we shouldn't be tempted to build expectations of.

It comes back to one of my favorite Zen sayings: "In practice there is".
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  #27  
Old 23-08-2014, 10:20 PM
Hypnoticalec
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoSandwich
Alec,

From understanding that, you are quite the smart-Alec :P. As for the experience seeking part, I think that the reason you are meeting a bit of resistance to that philosophy on here is because of the endless pain of seeking and desire. Taking a drug as innocuous as coffee has a crash (and a craving) after the "high", so seeking drugs for experiences, while it may be fun adds more destabilizing forces to life, even if it feels AMAZING. Even though the physiology isn't the same, this can be said psychologically of meditation too IF you emphasize the blissful states over awareness. In my experience, each time you increase the things you seek after and desire, you slowly make your life more of a living hell... There are a few things that happen when you seek things outside the self:

1. You either might not get them, which will make you angry...
2. You might get them and want more of them...
3. You might get them and then live in constant fear of losing them
4. You might get them, realize that they don't fulfill you like you expected and start desiring something else

Taoist philosopher and prince Liu An likens this to the curse of sitting with a fine feast of rich foods arrayed before you, but starving because each thing that you put in your mouth turns to ashes.

The opposite of this is not meditation (although meditation is really good at helping you to realize these things), but enjoyment of the simple and blissful moments of life: the embrace of someone you care about, a good meal, a nice moment of meditation (and/or parkour in your case). However, once you start spending energy DESIRING the next embrace, DESIRING fine foods, DESIRING the rush and freedom of parkour you are only harming yourself. Perhaps the happiest way to live is to live in enjoyment, not desire. Here is something to ponder: only a small number of people EVER even realize this difference! Turning this into a reality is a slow process, but I am sure many people on this forum are on this path and can tell you about how much better their lives have become.

From the fact that your body is still young enough for Parkour, I'd guess you are relatively young. I started seeking (exploring meditation, different spiritualities and philosophies, etc) in high school, but my true spiritual journey, when I stopped wandering and took the first steps along the path that I'm traveling now only began when I was 20. Perhaps you can start earlier and get there more quickly than me.

Best Wishes,
-TaoSandwich
I'm not a happy person but I sill live in the now so I don't get dragged by material things. I know it's in me to be happy but I don't know.
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  #28  
Old 24-08-2014, 01:19 AM
TaoSandwich
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnoticalec
I'm not a happy person but I sill live in the now so I don't get dragged by material things. I know it's in me to be happy but I don't know.

What is the biggest thing that is causing you sadness?
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