No God

Originally Posted by running

what is THAT recognition? THAT experience is the answer answer to THE ignorance. there is much more to get from nothing than something. as bliss and silence come from NOTHING.

thats how i see it and as simple as i know how to put it. for both. or just silence.

With insight comes clarity. Only in the unwinding of the chains of delusion does Dhamma have a chance.

THAT recognition has many levels; many more subtleties

Peace,

Jl

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by janielee

Buddhism has a number of schools, each used to guide students towards genuine path of practice. From Mahayana schools (Zen, Tibetan, Chinese) to Theravada schools, each has its place, and is based on Buddhist teachings at heart. Even if the form may differ, the substance and inherent secret/path is unity of realization.

Most practice a different form? People can practice whatever they like, the path of Buddhism is quite specific and the outcomes of Buddhahood are universally true.

For those interested in side alleys, I say - go for it.

Jl

All of the religions I know of have aspects of mysticism. From my viewpoint, mysticism resonates with magic.

नमस्ते

[sky]

Originally Posted by janielee

From what he says, jonesboy is not a Buddhist or Buddhist follower, but seems to leverage Buddhist quotes to recruit followers, offer “empowerment’s” etc.

I know very little about ' Empowerment ' except what I have read, I was invited last year to attend one but declined as I prefer to understand what it's all about before participating.

Did The Buddha actually teach about Empowerment , I can't find any Suttas referring to these Ceremonies, to me it seems they are more Cultural mixed up with Dhamma Teachings. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I have never studied the jnana's until this conversation.

That is great to hear. I don't know much about them.

If you are a serious Buddhist practitioner the stages are important as to understanding where you are on the path. One shouldn't get caught up in wanting to achieve one or another but Buddhism teaches a progressive means of practices. In Theravada they want you to master one stage before continuing on to other practices that leads to another deeper level of being. It is in that way that one isn't unstable and with an uncontrolled mind going up and down and all around.

Would you not agree?

I do agree with you that one should try to stay present in the moment as much as possible.

They do describe stages within mindful practice, but the practice itself is always the same. The adept's practice is more nuanced and refined than the novice's, and their balanced equanimity of mind more stable, but the practice is conscious awareness with mindful equanimity regardless of stage. The stages are important in the sense that they indicate the process of purification, but they are not important in the sense that they change the way meditation is practiced. This is because meditation is non-volitional - You are not doing anything - not because you stopped doing anything - but because you don't actually do things. In my practice I have seen the one who does things. That one doesn't like being seen, and is clever and deceptive. It will keep you distracted in any way it can through the reactive process, so one needs to be aware of the way in which they react to the real lived experience creates the one called 'me'. When you see that one you will know, this one pretends to be me. I am the one who sees you, and you can no longer get by me unawares.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by janielee

Sure, except these were your actual words:

If you are a serious Buddhist practitioner the stages are important as to understanding where you are on the path

Yes, it is important to not yearn for something put also to not think you have arrived or experienced something you haven't because of lack on knowledge.

It is important to become stable in one practice before trying to jump ahead into something you are not ready for.

I think we both can agree there is a lot of that on SF.

The four jhanas and the four immaterial attainments appear initially as mundane states of deep serenity pertaining to the preliminary stage of the Buddhist path, and on this level they help provide the base of concentration needed for wisdom to arise. But the four jhanas again reappear in a later stage in the development of the path, in direct association with liberating wisdom, and they are then designated the supramundane (lokuttara) jhanas. These supramundane jhanas are the levels of concentration pertaining to the four degrees of enlightenment experience called the supramundane paths (magga) and the stages of liberation resulting from them, the four fruits (phala).

Finally, even after full liberation is achieved, the mundane jhanas can still remain as attainments available to the fully liberated person, part of his untrammeled contemplative experience.The four jhanas and the four immaterial attainments appear initially as mundane states of deep serenity pertaining to the preliminary stage of the Buddhist path, and on this level they help provide the base of concentration needed for wisdom to arise. But the four jhanas again reappear in a later stage in the development of the path, in direct association with liberating wisdom, and they are then designated the supramundane (lokuttara) jhanas. These supramundane jhanas are the levels of concentration pertaining to the four degrees of enlightenment experience called the supramundane paths (magga) and the stages of liberation resulting from them, the four fruits (phala).

Finally, even after full liberation is achieved, the mundane jhanas can still remain as attainments available to the fully liberated person, part of his untrammeled contemplative experience.https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/.../wheel351.html

Tranquillity in turn leads to happiness, on the basis of which the mind becomes concentrated. Thus rapture precedes the actual arising of the first jhana, but persists through the remaining stages up to the third jhana.

By reflecting upon the second jhana as more tranquil and sublime than the first, the meditator ends his attachment to the first jhana and engages in renewed striving with the aim of reaching the higher stage. He directs his mind to his meditation subject — which must be one capable of inducing the higher jhanas such as a kasina or the breath — and resolves to overcome applied and sustained thought. When his practice comes to maturity the two kinds of thought subside and the second jhana arises

The fourth and final immaterial jhana, the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, is reached through the same preliminary procedure. The meditator can also reflect upon the unsatisfactoriness of perception, thinking: "Perception is a disease, perception is a boil, perception is a dart... this is peaceful, this is sublime, that is to say, neither-perception-nor-non-perception" (M.ii,231). In this way he ends his attachment to the base of nothingness and strengthens his resolve to attain the next higher stage.

Corresponding to the fourth jhana there are seven realms: the Realm of Great Reward, the Realm of Non-percipient Beings, and the five Pure Abodes.[22] With this jhana the rebirth pattern deviates from the former one. It seems that all beings who practice the fourth jhana of the mundane level without reaching any supramundane attainment are reborn in the realm of Great Reward. There is no differentiation by way of inferior, moderate or superior grades of development. The Realm of Non-percipient Beings is reached by those who, after attaining the fourth jhana, then use the power of their meditation to take rebirth with only material bodies; they do not acquire consciousness again until they pass away from this realm. The five Pure Abodes are open only to non-returners (anagamis), noble disciples at the penultimate stage of liberation who have eradicated the fetters binding them to the sense-sphere and thence automatically take rebirth in higher realms, where they attain arahatship and reach final deliverance.

If you read the article.. or even do a word search for "stages" you will see there is more than what i quoted here.

Basic stuff..

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by janielee

Except:

1. Gem has only been talking about practices
2. The Four Noble Truths are the epitome of the path of practice
3. Read what you said

Namaste,

Jl

They are teachings of behavior and intellectual understanding.

Meditation is the main practice of Buddhist that brings about the Wisdoms of the 4 Noble Truths.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by janielee

From what he says, jonesboy is not a Buddhist or Buddhist follower, but seems to leverage Buddhist quotes to recruit followers, offer “empowerment’s” etc.

I don't do empowerment's.

Now I have had a MahaMudra empowerment which is Buddhist and can talk to the power of it but empowerment's are not something that I do.

I do admit in the past I use to yell from the roof tops about what I had realized and wanted to share with others, wanted others to realize the same thing. I have also offered to demonstrate what I say is possible.

I have never tried to recruit any followers or recruit anyone to follow anyone.

In this entire thread it is only you that has brought up followers, following a guru etc.

Why can't you just have a normal conversation about Buddhism as we all try to learn about it?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

That is great to hear. I don't know much about them.







They do describe stages within mindful practice, but the practice itself is always the same. The adept's practice is more nuanced and refined than the novice's, and their balanced equanimity of mind more stable, but the practice is conscious awareness with mindful equanimity regardless of stage. The stages are important in the sense that they indicate the process of purification, but they are not important in the sense that they change the way meditation is practiced. This is because meditation is non-volitional - You are not doing anything - not because you stopped doing anything - but because you don't actually do things. In my practice I have seen the one who does things. That one doesn't like being seen, and is clever and deceptive. It will keep you distracted in any way it can through the reactive process, so one needs to be aware of the way in which they react to the real lived experience creates the one called 'me'. When you see that one you will know, this one pretends to be me. I am the one who sees you, and you can no longer get by me unawares.

The meditation and what you meditate on does change.

If you read the Mahamudra thread, if you read the Dzogchen: Practice of Contemplation thread, if you were to read the link on the jnanas it goes into detail how the meditation practices all change and what you meditate on changes as well.

Stages of progression with different methods to allow for deeper realizations.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Yes, it is important to not yearn for something put also to not think you have arrived or experienced something you haven't because of lack on knowledge.

It is important to become stable in one practice before trying to jump ahead into something you are not ready for.

I think we both can agree there is a lot of that on SF.

What about yearning to become Enlightened to help all Sentient beings, all yearnings cannot be bad surely...

[running]

Originally Posted by janielee

With insight comes clarity. Only in the unwinding of the chains of delusion does Dhamma have a chance.

THAT recognition has many levels; many more subtleties

Peace,

Jl

the subtleness of the energy, the depth of the silence is endless perhaps. not sure anyone knows if there is an end. certainly an unwinding of chains. i wouldn't think of it so much as levels. but continuation in depth. as its not a mental event. the heart speaks in bliss and silence.