Lookin for Truth in all the wrong places

For many, Truth realization seems to be devoutly desired, and perhaps it is an event that is becoming progressively more common, but it is still very rare. The conundrum is that there is nowhere to go and nothing to learn, nothing to become. Truth is not hiding, it actually is what you already are. Truth is what is seeking Truth, and is closer than anything that can be thought, felt or imagined. As such, Truth is the ultimate in simplicity and obviousness. It requires no special abilities, no sacrifice, no time. It is not only effortless, it is effortlessness itself.

Many Self realized beings have commented that the mystery is not how the rare few come to realize Truth, but how nearly everyone can somehow avoid it, so the issue is really the nature of this avoidance. Seeking Truth is actually the avoidance of Truth. That is, if what is being sought is Truth and nothing but the Truth, it simply cannot be avoided, so the seeking is for something other than Truth. The motivation is personal, but Truth is not.

The difficulty is that the seeking is driven from within an illusion of false identity. IOW, Self imagines it is a mind/body, and from within this delusion, the desire arises to be free of suffering because this delusion of separateness brings suffering with it. The belief in the false identity leads to suffering and a longing to realize Truth, which denies the reality of the false identity through which the seeking happens. Without the false identity, there is no need or desire to seek Truth. From within the false identity, Truth cannot be found, and so the entire motivation for seeking is built on a false premise, which is, itself, the only obstacle to realization.

As such, the only possible goal to the seeking is the end of the seeking. No person ever realizes Truth because the realization of Truth reveals the falsity of the person. Instead, Truth itself (Self) realizes itself through a particular mind. The seeking process itself denies Truth by declaring that it is not already present and is not already that which is seeking. The seeking is destined to fail and the seeking process to collapse, and take with it the seeker. This is Self realization.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Phroggy

For many, Truth realization seems to be devoutly desired, and perhaps it is an event that is becoming progressively more common, but it is still very rare. The conundrum is that there is nowhere to go and nothing to learn, nothing to become. Truth is not hiding, it actually is what you already are. Truth is what is seeking Truth, and is closer than anything that can be thought, felt or imagined. As such, Truth is the ultimate in simplicity and obviousness. It requires no special abilities, no sacrifice, no time. It is not only effortless, it is effortlessness itself.

Many Self realized beings have commented that the mystery is not how the rare few come to realize Truth, but how nearly everyone can somehow avoid it, so the issue is really the nature of this avoidance. Seeking Truth is actually the avoidance of Truth. That is, if what is being sought is Truth and nothing but the Truth, it simply cannot be avoided, so the seeking is for something other than Truth. The motivation is personal, but Truth is not.

The difficulty is that the seeking is driven from within an illusion of false identity. IOW, Self imagines it is a mind/body, and from within this delusion, the desire arises to be free of suffering because this delusion of separateness brings suffering with it. The belief in the false identity leads to suffering and a longing to realize Truth, which denies the reality of the false identity through which the seeking happens. Without the false identity, there is no need or desire to seek Truth. From within the false identity, Truth cannot be found, and so the entire motivation for seeking is built on a false premise, which is, itself, the only obstacle to realization.

As such, the only possible goal to the seeking is the end of the seeking. No person ever realizes Truth because the realization of Truth reveals the falsity of the person. Instead, Truth itself (Self) realizes itself through a particular mind. The seeking process itself denies Truth by declaring that it is not already present and is not already that which is seeking. The seeking is destined to fail and the seeking process to collapse, and take with it the seeker. This is Self realization.

Nice. Not much else to say really. Which is always a bonus.

[psychoslice]

Beautiful Phroggy, and like Andrew said, "not much else to say really".

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by andrew g

Nice. Not much else to say really. Which is always a bonus.

This Is quite rare Indeed andrew - kinda like self realization. (lol)

Well said phroggy I loved It.

Where I am regarding my Individual search though - Is that It Isn't really a search - Not In the way that could be identified as a search that requires something to look for and for something to be found. The search does not take you outside of yourself, for there Is nowhere to go and no-one else to find. (lol)

It's more about recognizing and realizing that which we are and yes truth and what we are - “are the same” We are also Love, peace, and Joy. They are all the same. It’s only the mind that separates them Into emotions.

An old saying that we all know Is that who we are, lies within our hearts. No man will ever dream of looking there.

x daz x

[Gem]

So if one is lost he will search... for the truth. I don't know if a lost person is in denial of the truth, he just sees that things are in the way, and has a tendancy to look toward himself.

[andrew g]

Ive just reflected some more on what I liked about this, and if Im interpreting you correctly, what I like is that you havent denied the reality OF the illusion of the false identity. Having just reflected on this, I would also say that 'identity' in itself is false by definition - there is no true I-dentity. The whole notion of 'identity' IS the illusion (and delusion) itself.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Gem

So if one is lost he will search... for the truth. I don't know if a lost person is in denial of the truth, he just sees that things are in the way, and has a tendancy to look toward himself.

I would say that its more like - if one believes he is lost he will search. The dilemma is that many people dont believe they are lost because they are attached rigidly to their self-image. These people believe firmly that they know who they are (For example, I am Andrew and I am kind) So sometimes we have to get confused about who we are before we can question whether there even IS a 'who we are'. We get lost, we search, and then we realize that the one that gets lost and searches is a story, an illusion.

Thinking out loud here....

Step one is attachment to self-image/I-dentity. Step two is searching for a perceived true identity (some people then identify with a perceived true identity which is really just a spiritual self-image). Step three is seeing that the perceived true identity is an illusion too, because the existence of the 'one' who has a true identity is ALSO a story. Which takes the illusion of 'us' back to square one yet this time in allowance and acceptance of the I-dentity that arises in each moment.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by God-Like

This Is quite rare Indeed andrew - kinda like self realization. (lol)

Well said phroggy I loved It.

Where I am regarding my Individual search though - Is that It Isn't really a search - Not In the way that could be identified as a search that requires something to look for and for something to be found. The search does not take you outside of yourself, for there Is nowhere to go and no-one else to find. (lol)

It's more about recognizing and realizing that which we are and yes truth and what we are - “are the same” We are also Love, peace, and Joy. They are all the same. It’s only the mind that separates them Into emotions.

An old saying that we all know Is that who we are, lies within our hearts. No man will ever dream of looking there.

x daz x

I would honestly say daz that who we are lies just as much in the heart as it does in the tree, or in the sink, or in the sky. There really isnt much difference between looking outside of self as looking inside of self because the story OF 'self' (as the one who looks) is still being upheld. If the end to searching is what you want, then I would say that questioning beliefs is helpful here. In the end, ultimately, the search perpetuates the story of self. I understand that most people have to conduct some kind of search initially but there comes a point where its helpful to see the story for what it is. There may then be some going backwards and forwards between making 'self' real and seeing the whole game for what it is. Or there may not - for some, seeing the game once may collapse the belief in the seer OF the game once and for all.

[Gem]

One does have to look into things with a balanced mind, because there is experience and there are people.

Gem believes he is and names this entity constituted of memorised experiences future fisions and self impressions, so it is easy for Gem to recount aspects of himself, his finer qualities and his depavities and it is ridiculous to claim this doesn't exist since it is so plainly obvious, and also applies to you.

I know how convenient it is to discount everything apparant and call it illusion, but it does not seem insightful, because whether there is or isn't a you are just two opposing points of view.

If someone wishes to seek then so be it, what else would he do? I can't see this reflects denial, attachment or any of these assumptions. If the belief is 'I'm seeking truth' that is just observed to be, and I have noticed all those placing themselves in wize positions have done their fair share of seeking too.

Greetings..

Self imagines it is a mind/body, and from within this delusion, the desire arises to be free of suffering because this delusion of separateness brings suffering with it. The belief in the false identity leads to suffering and a longing to realize Truth, which denies the reality of the false identity through which the seeking happens.

Hi Phroggy: The entireity of your post is an excellent perspective of truth, and its relationship with those that would seek it.. i experience the mind/body in all of its magnificent glory, its sensuality AND its suffering, its joy AND its grief, and yet.. i know that is but a temporary reality, a brief relationship with myself in all my Universes of diversity.. and, i know that the brief experience as a tangible manifestation of myself is as true as the totality of the Whole, neither being diminished by the other..

Truth is what is seeking Truth, and is closer than anything that can be thought, felt or imagined. As such, Truth is the ultimate in simplicity and obviousness. It requires no special abilities, no sacrifice, no time. It is not only effortless, it is effortlessness itself.

Delightfully explained, and without contradiction.. this understanding is what allows one to explore the physical experience with unconditional sincerity and unrestrained gusto..

From within the false identity, Truth cannot be found, and so the entire motivation for seeking is built on a false premise, which is, itself, the only obstacle to realization.

The 'identity' isn't actually 'false', it's very real, very useful in the physical experience.. what is false, is the belief that one is limited to the physical characteristics and the knowledge gained through physical experience.. the identity is false, when it isn't realized as Truth exploring itself..

Thanks, Phroggy, the post is a well written enticement to good discussion..

Be well..