does sin corrupt our logic

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

Belle; This is why it so absolutely essential to follow Christ and do as He instructed...We must come to know our complete truth - to understandour self our circumstance and predicamant fully - otherwise,whatever we thnk is truth currently,is only actually "half truth" - illusion - or sometimes even,outright deception...Indeed,we lie to our self all the time,hide behind our lies snd present them to the world as truth - all the result of,self ignorant,egoic mind...

as he taught - th eonly way to overcome thi s"sin2 of the low mind - is ot make it whole again - literally,we must take thisnarrow focus mind here,reading thispost - and thenHe said,dive within,hold that focus down through all the layers of mind - to finally,eno****er a secret,silent place within....On the way,this mind here is going to uncover all manner of self deceipt,illusion and half truth - push past it all He said,and seek always that void empty mind - this is the starting place He said...

(indeed - this is the starting place of ALL Creation)

He said into this secret silent place within - Light will shine,and a Presence will come...I merely vouch that what He taught really does work exactly as He said it - such a void,blank mind is possible,it does exist within - manage to find it,and I assure you,this "presence" and Light are legitimate..The religion calls this phenomena the Holy Ghost - only IT knows legitimate truth He said...Seek for it always then he advised,invite it to dwell here at the top mind - bring it forth He said - thus its guidance will save us from all these ignorant "lower mind" choices and actions - sin will stop,as simply said,sin itself IS the guidance of this low mortal mind alone - mend it first then He said - become WHOLE once again - and then,venture beyond to find Our eternal Father..

[Belle]

Originally Posted by IamSoul49

Hello All

Belle; This is why it so absolutely essential to follow Christ and do as He instructed...We must come to know our complete truth - to understandour self our circumstance and predicamant fully - otherwise,whatever we thnk is truth currently,is only actually "half truth" - illusion - or sometimes even,outright deception...Indeed,we lie to our self all the time,hide behind our lies snd present them to the world as truth - all the result of,self ignorant,egoic mind...

I don't follow Christ but I used to. Anyway, I knew so many different Christians with different logics and truths. Who was right?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Belle

I don't follow Christ but I used to. Anyway, I knew so many different Christians with different logics and truths. Who was right?

You're right Belle. Logic, so called, is declared by the atheist also. What is it based on, but information after all? Not enough information, faulty logic.
Too much ego, it is negated.
The answer?

As the Master stated. "You must be born again".
"Information"... which comes by the Spirit.
The Spirit is everything. "In Whom we live and move and have our being".

Who conveys to us, as well, the love of God in Christ.

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

Belle;

Anyway, I knew so many different Christians with different logics and truths. Who was right?

lol,,,CHRIST was right..lol...Always - follow HIM....I refer you back then,to my fist post page 1 - and emphasise for you - He said to find this truth,this Kingdom,we MUST put aside all the things we believed were truth,as actually,its all been an illusion...ALL OF IT....And of course that includes especeially He said all this religous dogma,ides and notions that we have been taughtby others....

It may suprise you greatly - but He ctually told the jews upfront,that THEIR god - that same god of the bible - simply IS NOT a true god at all....<mankind was tricked by it He said,and still to this day,mankind is duped - now through the bible as well...The god of that religion,is not the Father that Christ taught of - and so we see - ask as many "christians" as we find - but the truth there,is that if they are "bible church christians" - then actually,they do not know His full truth at all,or follow HIS instructions - they follow CHURCH truth and church instruction - a twisted half truth of Christ....

Of course - He warned us before hand all this would be done to us - which is why He actually instructed to shun the religion as it is not legitimate - you dont come to the Father He said,by words of man or the books they write - they will keep truth from you He warned - so instead,seek it directly - within the Self,ALWAYS,a secret inner quest - all the things you need are ALREADY contained within you and no man can give you it or do it for you - He said men will take this inner living legitimate truth from you and replace it with their lies and illusions,and this is exactly what happened,especially in the religion and the bible they gave you..

It does not contain His full truth - and this is precisely why all those "bible christians" gave so many different versions - none of them understand - its IMPOSSIBLE to understand from the bible alone - as the religion itself,keeps truth from them,omits it from the "sanctioned book" and replaces it there with their own agenda truth...

Morph;

You're right Belle. Logic, so called, is declared by the atheist also. What is it based on, but information after all? Not enough information, faulty logic.
Too much ego, it is negated.

Agreed - at the surface still - which is why He said - the answer - is to put aside all your surface truth first - all preconceptions of truth - all LEARNED truth - especially that taught about "god" He said,for the one who taught that truth TRICKED AND DECEIVED you....Come to HATE YOUR PARENTS He said - means exactly come to despise their ways and traditions - ALL based on a "false god" He said...

Sin - and salvation - are issues of IGNORANCE - and the only cure He said,is to go within and stop hiding from your truth and stop accepting all these lies and deceipts from others...encounter your truth first He said,then allow THAT to guide you always..This truth is found DEEP WITHIN HE said - so yes indeed,MEND THE MIND,fix your logic - go find that secret place He speaks of,and see what this PRESENCE is REALLY all about - and do it FIRST He said,as only this Presence can know truth at all,for it IS the living spirit of Our Father He said,and we each contain it RIGHT NOW....

The reliogn took that truth,replaced it and said - NO WAY - you are "worthless sinner!" and you do not deserve that gift - come to us,bow,grovel beg and maybe we will give it to you if WE deem you worthy....

Morph - we save OUR SELF He said - bring forth this thing we find within...NOBODY else can do it for us,not even Christ,He merely shows us a secret inner gate to open - the rest is ENTIRELY UP TO OUR OWN EFFORTS !! He died in that manner to show His truth as He resurrected,thus proved Our Father was real and legitimate and gave people the faith to TRUST HIM - it was NOT some kind of "ransom" or "barter for our souls"....ridiculous notion...Take responsibility for your SELF HE said....

This religion has you greatly deceived...No "get out of jail free " card exists my friend - He merely died in that manner to show us the nature of our true spirit,and our potential - that is all - He didnt magically "fix our sins" - only WE can do that He said - and indeed,we begin,just as He instructed,by mending this broken mind - above ALL mortal things He said - KNOW THY SELF

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Belle

I don't follow Christ but I used to. Anyway, I knew so many different Christians with different logics and truths. Who was right?

Why are you looking for right? That's the entire problem with all external doctrine and dogma.
Rather, the process is only ever about exploring truth via the inner self-reflective, self-realization path.
It's not about right, it's about do.

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

Belle; IM not looking for "right" - YOU ARE - you asked for it specifically - first you asked your bible christian friends you said,but got no satisfaction,so now you ask here also..As I said - I already know which to trust - only Christ - He is that living truth,literally so..

And it seems - you know what to trust also,because look - we agree totally here

Rather, the process is only ever about exploring truth via the inner self-reflective, self-realization path.
It's not about right, it's about do.

Which of course is exactly what I said all along...Its not about right - its about do - so - and we DO what Christ advised - we inevitably arrive at what is truth,just and RIGHT - it is INEVITABLE,as these truths are already within us - and yes,during this process,we inevitably uncover and so REALISE,(literally make real) our own enternal nature - we become Christ,exactly as He advised..Thus sin stops - and thus,we SAVE OUR SELF !!

[Baile]

Originally Posted by IamSoul49

Belle; IM not looking for "right" - YOU ARE - you asked for it specifically -

You're mixing Belle and Baile up, looks like!

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

lol....I need glasses it seems - or a bigger monitor..lol....

(iam 50 next month - so its not suprising)

there - found some - we will be ok now..lol...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by IamSoul49

Hello All

Belle;

lol,,,CHRIST was right..lol...Always - follow HIM....I refer you back then,to my fist post page 1 - and emphasise for you - He said to find this truth,this Kingdom,we MUST put aside all the things we believed were truth,as actually,its all been an illusion...ALL OF IT....And of course that includes especeially He said all this religous dogma,ides and notions that we have been taughtby others....

It may suprise you greatly - but He ctually told the jews upfront,that THEIR god - that same god of the bible - simply IS NOT a true god at all....<mankind was tricked by it He said,and still to this day,mankind is duped - now through the bible as well...The god of that religion,is not the Father that Christ taught of - and so we see - ask as many "christians" as we find - but the truth there,is that if they are "bible church christians" - then actually,they do not know His full truth at all,or follow HIS instructions - they follow CHURCH truth and church instruction - a twisted half truth of Christ....

Of course - He warned us before hand all this would be done to us - which is why He actually instructed to shun the religion as it is not legitimate - you dont come to the Father He said,by words of man or the books they write - they will keep truth from you He warned - so instead,seek it directly - within the Self,ALWAYS,a secret inner quest - all the things you need are ALREADY contained within you and no man can give you it or do it for you - He said men will take this inner living legitimate truth from you and replace it with their lies and illusions,and this is exactly what happened,especially in the religion and the bible they gave you..

It does not contain His full truth - and this is precisely why all those "bible christians" gave so many different versions - none of them understand - its IMPOSSIBLE to understand from the bible alone - as the religion itself,keeps truth from them,omits it from the "sanctioned book" and replaces it there with their own agenda truth...

Morph;

Agreed - at the surface still - which is why He said - the answer - is to put aside all your surface truth first - all preconceptions of truth - all LEARNED truth - especially that taught about "god" He said,for the one who taught that truth TRICKED AND DECEIVED you....Come to HATE YOUR PARENTS He said - means exactly come to despise their ways and traditions - ALL based on a "false god" He said...

Sin - and salvation - are issues of IGNORANCE - and the only cure He said,is to go within and stop hiding from your truth and stop accepting all these lies and deceipts from others...encounter your truth first He said,then allow THAT to guide you always..This truth is found DEEP WITHIN HE said - so yes indeed,MEND THE MIND,fix your logic - go find that secret place He speaks of,and see what this PRESENCE is REALLY all about - and do it FIRST He said,as only this Presence can know truth at all,for it IS the living spirit of Our Father He said,and we each contain it RIGHT NOW....

The reliogn took that truth,replaced it and said - NO WAY - you are "worthless sinner!" and you do not deserve that gift - come to us,bow,grovel beg and maybe we will give it to you if WE deem you worthy....

Morph - we save OUR SELF He said - bring forth this thing we find within...NOBODY else can do it for us,not even Christ,He merely shows us a secret inner gate to open - the rest is ENTIRELY UP TO OUR OWN EFFORTS !! He died in that manner to show His truth as He resurrected,thus proved Our Father was real and legitimate and gave people the faith to TRUST HIM - it was NOT some kind of "ransom" or "barter for our souls"....ridiculous notion...Take responsibility for your SELF HE said....

This religion has you greatly deceived...No "get out of jail free " card exists my friend - He merely died in that manner to show us the nature of our true spirit,and our potential - that is all - He didnt magically "fix our sins" - only WE can do that He said - and indeed,we begin,just as He instructed,by mending this broken mind - above ALL mortal things He said - KNOW THY SELF

Soul, all have sinned, including you. You cannot "save" yourself. Want to design your own "truth"? So be it, you will find out the real Truth, though.
I will ask you, did Jesus keep the law, and the commandments? He did, perfectly. Unlike you, or I. He did NOT deny the Father of the old testament as you state, but kept His law.

Did God of the old testament set up the atoning rituals for the sake of the people? He did, early on after the Law was given through Moses.
Who Jesus is the capstone of, as prophesied through the ages, especially in the Book of Isaiah, the most comprehensive of the Dead Sea Scrolls find. Which you ignore.

You take liberties, to your own detriment.

The Law is perfect, which Jesus kept perfectly, unlike you or I, who then went to the cross in judgement for sins, but not for His own. But, for yours and mine, as long prophesied that He would! Through the ages of the writings, confirmed in the Dead Sea Scrolls.


Acknowledge the Truth! - God is Truth.

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

Morph;

Soul, all have sinned, including you. You cannot "save" yourself.

Hmm...Yes - all have sinned - agreed - how could they not..?..Sin IS GUIDANCE FORM A MORTAL IGNORANT MIND - and that is ALL it is - so of course,we all HAVE an ignorant mortal mind to some extent or other - and so YES INDEED,all HAVE sinned,and yes indeed,ALL were BORN into this condition.....I get all that - but do you..?..Yes - you can indeed save your Self - this was His EXPLICIT teaching in fact,to rely on Self and to AVOID the external sources of "truth"..Look - hear HIS words clearly - what else is He saying here..?..

"If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the Father's kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Father's kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

There is the first clue and blatant advise to quit following others BLINDLY..YOUR LEADERS He just said,dont have a clue about this truth...Just as blatantly,He says,it starts buy KNOWING THE SELF above all things..>So follow that - if then,we are IGNORANT OF SELF,then we do NOT have this truth he speaks of - obviously - and He goes on - only WHEN we know our Self fully,then and ONLY then,do we begin to comprehend the FATHER....HE said it Morph - your religion tricked you - the leaders He warned clearly - do NOT know Divine truth....

So be it, you will find out the real Truth, though.

I DID - in EXACTLY the manner He said it would happen - and I did it at a time when I didnt even know any of this,and still,IT HAPPENED just as He said and predicted it would...Therefore I KNOW - He is TRUTH - and so,I am just doing as He bids,sharing it freely.....Now,I cant expect you to embrace all this based on MY experiences alone - and neither did He - and so,He SHOWS me,where these things are noted,recorded,written down,and shows me how they ACTUALLY APPLY to our spiritual journey we each MUST make.That Holy Ghost He taught of,is very real indeed....So then - DONT trust Me - thats not the issue here at all - but if you ARE a Christian,truly a Christian,then you need for sure,to place TRUST in HIM and the things HE said.. He told you all you will need to know - your church hid it all from you - replaced it just as He warned it would do - Iam just setting it all out again plainly,as He intended..

I will ask you, did Jesus keep the law, and the commandments?

NO - He did not - at pretty much every opportunity,He REINVENTED the old ways and taught something NEW - check out even in your bible - matthew I believe...Our mate tells the crowd of people basically - "you heard it said before in your lore blah blah blah......but now I Christ tell you a NEW WAY....." ...Fill in the blanks with all manner of traditional views and practice,for He actually RE INTERPRETED them,did AWAY WITH THE OLD AND REPLACED IT WITH NEW UNDERSTANDING...Likewise,He told people blatantly to shun the temple,it is done for public status He said and ONLY public status has NO spiritual significance at all He said but done purely for power,prestige and authority from fellow man...They dupe and deceive you there he said..Quit babbling like pagans - quit grovelling and begging - quit useelss never ending prayers and rituals - come to HATE your parents He said - if you follow ME then EVERYONE will DESPISE you...

Because of such things,the jews opposed Him,and HE OPPOSED them...its all rather obvious actually,to an open mind..Look - He was heretical in the jewish eyes and did not adhere to their ways at all - told everyone openly of the errors and deceipts - NOT A PRIEST,yet DARES to enter their temple,ransack it and PREACH AND CHASTISE them..For crying out loud - He broke their SABBATH ON PURPOSE,then calmly told them that He did OUR FATHERS work regardless....

Getting it yet...?..He had NO concerns about them,their religion or their god...LOOK - here is more of HIS words that SHOULD show you clearly :

They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "The Roman emperor's people demand taxes from us."
He said to them, "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give god what belongs to god, and give me what is mine."

VERY CLEAR isnt it..?...He does not identify Himself or affiliate Himself with EITHER with the mortal world of men,OR with the god of the hebrews - but says His is SEPERATE and DISTINCT...That is because first,He is not merely mortal ,but IS the living Divine spirit - and second,HIS "god" and Source He teaches us of,is NOT their god at all...He clearly wished to EMPHASIS that point to them,as He does,every chance He gets....eventually,this truth will begin to take hold among the jews of course,that sermon on the mount and others public speeches denounce their god and attract many to a new truth,all backed up by Divine miracles that NO PRIEST OF THE RELIGION CAN PERFORM - and so,they plot to kill Him,silence Him..

Morph - thats crucial - stop and think,free the mind for a moment - ask your Self two important vital questions at this point - 1) WHY did they murder Him..?.. 2) WHY could NO PRIEST EVER do the miracles that HE ALONE became famous for..?..

The answer is the same - Our Father is NOT their god - that IS what He told them..They had NO DIVINE POWER at all - needed ritual and sacrifice and sorcery,chants,prayers,collective effort,time and devotion - to do barest miraculous works - yet here,immediatly,our mate - what..?.. - HEALS A LEPER with just the Will and the Word....Understand the significance Morph - HE is legitimate - THEY are not - they knew this BY HIS miracles,and so they murder Him to silence His truth...Again - all rather obvious,when we keep an open mind and can keep track of what is actually being said and done by all sides involved..

Did God of the old testament set up the atoning rituals for the sake of the people? He did, early on after the Law was given through Moses

NO NO NO !!! PLEASE - take the blinkers off mate - LOOK AGAIN at those "commandments" and all the stuff that follows from them...These are given for this "gods" benefit,NOT ours...LOOK honestly at its primary commandments !!

1 - It says OTHER GODS EXIST,but we are FORBIDDEN to know them !! (it is fearful and jealous)
2 - So jealous,it covets power completely over us,even tells us this blatantly here in this second commandment - i AM a jealous god it say and I will punish you AND your children if you disobey MY COMMANDS..(Obviously,this is for ITS benefit then,not ours..)
3) It tells us dont even dare to bad mouth me (take my name in vain),or I will know and again you will be punished severely..(this will become such a fear for the jews that even today,they will not utter this gods given name - and I tell you All - this is indeed,a METAPHYSICAL truth - for to know a TRUE name,is to have POWER over that CREATURE - the god here I presume,is protecting itself,its power and status,coveting that power for itself and unwilling to share,DONT use my name it says,DONT call ON ME - it is ALWAYS doing this,puts itself first always)..

WHY is it saying these things SPECIFICALLY..???..And so important to it that it places these concerns above all others..??..

Listen closely - its an ANGEL - an other planar inhabitant - extra dimensional BEING - an INDIVIDUAL and UNIQUE CREATURE that has an INDIVIDUAL and UNIQUE NAME..It can be SUMMONED by those who know the proper methods - just as for instance,Soloman amongst many others,SUMMONED similar entities many many times in the jewish past - their history is cram full of such metaphysical spiritual truths - I explain it plainly then as best I can - and say simply,to know the NAME (proper name) of such an entity,is to have power and a measure of control in relation TO that entity - this god here in these first commandments,gives PROHIBITION that tells the people NOT to summon it,NOT to use its name (should they learn it) - of course,such a thing,would not be a concern to an "all powerful god" at all,beyond such lesser rites of summoning - and so we see clearly again,this one here,is "not all powerful" and very well knows it..

Follow it - what it is ACTUALLY saying to them,given THEIR culture and EXPECTATIONS..It has already said remember,OTHER SIMILAR GODS EXIST - it FULLY ADMITS THAT FACT in the first commandment..They exist but are forbidden to us it told us explicitly..It then forbids the SUMMONING contact or communion with these "gods" by using names and IMAGES,and then tells us not to summon itself either.....Let it sink in deep - it wants us dominated,under ITS control alone...It tell us point blank not to try to commune with other higher forms at all - it is boss,and wants to control us completly..It tells us not to try to contact those other gods ,for it is jealous it says so openly,and again,wants to have us all to itself..

The same theme of guarding its "possessions and authority over us",continues in the later "commandments" as well...Once it sets these PRIMARY and ESSENTIAL commands forbiddin gsuch extra planar communion,it begins to set lesser commands designed to reinforce its status and control...Such as next,it says once a week,you MUST put aside all earthly concerns and simply spend an entire day,WORSHIPPING this god completely,decout yourself to it fully for an entire day (sabbath) - thus it continually reinforces its own authority over them..

Similarly - next command is to ALWAYS FOLLOW THE PARENTS - for it has dominated the parents fully already,so now it commands to the new generations to always "honour thy parents" follow THEIR ways without question,and its job of dominating you is made ever more easy and allowed to continue without challenge...Beginning to understand..?...These things are said for ITS beneifit,and NOT for ours...This is why Christ said opposite - dont honour your parents at all - HATE THEM - for this god here that commanded them,is NOT Our Father He said....

Only the last five commandments,are dealing with mortal concerns - the first five are dealing with this god and its stamping of authority over us - its domination is full,and fear its the means to control..The rest of the "laws" are similarly slanted aimed at keeping them subjugated at all times.....Along comes Christ,and turned all that around - pulled it apart,and gave a new truth in its place that said that god aint even a god at all - just an Angel that once thought it was supreme,and in its arrogance it claims this authority over us without any legitimate rights to do so...hence He said - turn from that god,its religions and its teachers,for they are not truth - but here - come to Me He said,and I will give you it FREELY and completely..

Who Jesus is the capstone of, as prophesied through the ages, especially in the Book of Isaiah, the most comprehensive of the Dead Sea Scrolls find. Which you ignore.

Actually you will find it was "Enoch" that was found as most complete and most comprehensive - over fifty full and complete copies found in the same cache,so obviously a most important and most sacred manuscript - and look,IT agrees with everything presented here also...

In Enoch we read of the repurcussions of all this - as angel demigod yahweh AND his creation here,his own angels finally encounter the TRUE Divine,so Enoch begins their with the repurcussions of that event - a turning away from the gods authority,and so this god schemes and sends troublesome angels down here among us...Indeed - LOOK - it is these very "Fallen Ones" - who TEACH mankind the very METAPHYSICAL truth that I begin to explain above...Hence - the god deals with them,in the flood - they perish in body and Soul become TRAPPED HERE - as that which we now term DEMON or jinn - see the repurcussions then and why those commandments became necassary..?..

The history presented by Enoch is VERY TRUE - all our ancient cultures tell of such a time when gods and men walked side by side - check out especially,the Annunaki,whose legends contain ALL the Hebrew narrative,but from a perspective thousands of years before the bible was ever written...The Sumerian people of millenia before,are the real "chosen of this god",not the hebrews who are much later in its interactions with us..After al the chaos and rebellion by its OWN angels here,it wipes them and us out and starts again - The god comes to man again and says basically - now those others are gone in physical form,so now my FIRST COMMANDS are - you lot NOW STOP SUMMONING OTHER PLANAR CREATURES - I FORBID YOU SUCH KNOWLEDGE EVER AGAIN - only I will instruct you and you will have NONE of these others before ME !!

It really IS that simple..Oher plaens of existance - heavens and their inhabitants - all very real indeed...The god here is one amongst many - it fully admits this - and all the way through, it has been ensuring its OWN domination and control...All the religions are a means OF that control - especiailly this western religion that ensured such metaphysical truth was all but eradicated,thus they removed our access to the Divine hold us subserviant prisoner..

I dont ignore anything Morph - take account of every avenue that becomes open for investigation and see then the widest most inclusive truth possible - and above all else - keep the mind open and receptive - not closed and shut down,indoctrinated as they have taught you..Follow those truths revealed - piece it together - it is obvious - as Christ indeed said plainly -the hebrew god of the bible is not the Father that He taught us of - not legitimate Divinity - when He told them this,they murdered Him to silence His truth...The rest is twisted history..