Ethics

[Unseeking Seeker]

We see self-proclaimed spiritual gurus all over on the internet, particularly on YouTube, which is a great platform to market the ‘goods’.

I’ve noticed people project themselves as larger than life, eager to get an audience. Eventually, the tease suggests paid sessions and retreats. A number of questions arise:

1. Of course money is needed to fund events. But should this be purely voluntary? If it is, there will be freeloaders, if not then what’s the definition of a non-profit organisation in real terms?
2. Are the so called teachers really qualified to impart the teaching? What is their direct realisation? How much of what they speak is vicarious knowledge borrowed from scriptures?

Let’s look at this. The realisations we have, we can more or less acknowledge, are at best intermediate awakenings. Deep, profound etc. but not complete. How did we get it? How else but by grace? If so, there is no logic to charge money for it or impose the teaching on others. Is it not egoic to take it upon ourselves to become a crusader of some sort, seeking recognition, if nothing else?

It is argued for example that it is alright for mediums or clairvoyants to charge clients for sessions. They need to support themselves, don’t they? But this seems to be a specious argument. Can not the universe provide for them? Are they charging money because of need or greed? Is it then not discriminatory, looking toward mansions and not neighbourhood slums, metaphorically speaking?

What are your views on this?

[Native spirit]

There are not many people who do things for Nothing, some where along the line you will see Donations excepted,
or you will be asked to chip in somewhere,

I only go on facebook but I never post anything some people live their lives on the thing that is Dangerous, saying that there are a small number of people that give freely ,
like food banks etc but somewhere along the line a charge comes into everything

I am a medium and a Healer do I ask for money no I don't so there are some of us that do it to help people


Namaste

[Unseeking Seeker]

That’s great, Native spirit ~ a close friend of mine, Vijay Mehra is an evolved medium too. He does not charge money either, does so many sessions face to face as well as over phone. My view is that the gifts we have received free from the creator should be used to the common good, without expecting anything in return, acknowledging that we are but a humble conduit for God’s energy here, in this density.

[Starman]

I am so glad that I learned how to meditate from a guru back in the 1970’s when people where shown and nurtured into a meditation practice for free. We were asked to donate whatever we could afford and it was okay to not donate anything at all, and still receive the gurus teachings.

There were lots of gurus back then going around the world accepting devotees for free, lots of free spiritual festivals also taking place at many places around the world. One of the ways I could tell if a teacher was qualified or not was in the experience which they imparted to their followers; especially “darshan.” Darshan was a big thing back then.

This was before computers and the internet; and it was not until the late 1990’s that yoga, meditation, and spiritual teachers became commercialized and started charging money for their services. Before then it was voluntary donations. I think it became commercialized when it spread to materialistic (mostly western) countries, and also with the invention of the internet.

Yoga and meditation was in India for many centuries and it was not about money, rather it was about devotion to a practice and a teacher. People gave generously out of love. Today it is different; Ram Dass called what we have today “spiritual materialism,” where spirituality is for sale. Anything can be justified by the mind regardless whether it is ethical or not. Yes, the universe does provide to those who are in harmony with it.

I live in the U.S., the most capitalistic country on Earth, everything here is about money and it sometimes makes me sick. Money in this world has become more important than life. People die because they don’t have money for medicine, food, or healthcare. People live in ignorance because they can not afford an education, and that has now spread to spirituality as well. On Earth money is God. That is my opinion.

[hazada guess]

So true Starman.That is all people are interested in these days,Power and Money.that is why we have so much trouble ATM.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

What are your views on this?

I agree with all that has been claimed on the thread.

I would categorize the people claiming to be connected with spirituality in 4 categories
1. Crooks / frauds - Of course these are not really spiritual but they wear the cloak of spirituality and dupe the ignorant faithful masses by concealing facts / misleading facts / misinterpreting scriptures / spreading superstitions wilfully and take disproportionate advantage of followers (many a gullible women also) . Every effort must be made to expose such people with facts , educate ignorant masses with facts and punish the guilty of frauds.
2.Moderate one's asking/expecting reasonable donation/charges- This set may have learned about spirituality vicariously through scriptures , through other's experiences and in their eagerness , they may wish to help others genuinely and in the process they may expect/ask some consideration. While this is not spirituality per se (its business) , but its not bad if the charges /consideration is reasonable and they really help the seekers with genuine / right information .
3.Recognition seeker- This category of people too are not best spiritual people . But they can be given respect (what they expect) if their spiritual guidance is genuine and authentic. There is still very high chance that these people too may turn to money seeker later on (2nd category above). This kind of people can get swayed with/without recognition.
4.Truly authentic spiritual ones - These rare breed is truly child/disciple of God or God/Godess himself/herself. They love without reason (consideration ) ,they experience joy without reason.They work tirelessly. They have expanded themselves and are without any boundaries (365/6 X 24). Even recognition/praise/ sanction/criticism have not much impact on them / their convictions / their enthusiasm. They even embrace death with a smile . Warriers / Myrtrs /teachers etc who die for a cause can be considered in this category.
Society must have ways to find such people , recognize them with respect and follow him/her for their own good . Many a times contemporary society is not only unable to understand / respect such people but also oppose such people fiercely before it can really understand such people.

So there is wide range of people in the spiritual arena one has to be aware of.

[Gem]

There are no ethical answers because ethics exist as dilemmas, but if we say the nature of a man's will determines his morality, we don't need to talk about specific actions. For example, cutting someone open with a knife is bad with the intent to harm, but good when a surgeon does life-saving surgery.

I'd generally argue against providing spiritual services on condition of payment, and I'd also say you have to be selective with clients and not accept anyone.

If we follow a principle of generosity, that means to give without expecting anything in return. Then it would be a donations base, but contributors should understand that they are not giving for what they got for themselves, but supporting the service so it is there for someone else. The money can cover costs, and any excess should be put into making the service better/more available, but once a profit motive in introduced, it distorts the intent.

You can't reasonably do spiritual work for a price because the conditions of service aren't payment. It's still exclusive, but the conditions of exclusion are whether this client is mentally ill, emotionally unstable, obsessing, reliant etc. That should be a hard 'no'.

[green1]

God is the only teacher. ;-)

[WhiteWarrior]

Hm. Good thread premise.

Let's start by looking at your regular priest. He works a full week, and gets a normal paycheck which he taxes from. (If there's clergy anywhere that gets to avoid taxes I have never heard of such a thing.) So, he benefits economically from his spiritual work. And all he speaks is derived from a specific holy book, so he might not need to be all that spiritual, just knowledgeable of his source library. Does he write all his speeches himself? Maybe. Does he turn the stack of speeches when he's gone through them and repeat? Possibly. My point is, he gets major money benefits from his spirituality. We do not seem to have ethical issues with this.

I do a little spiritual work. I have no name, no congregation, no church, no money income from it, but also no obligations to anyone but myself. But I do have ethics, they just aren't about money. I will not lie. I will not gild a message. I will do the best I can with what I have, every time.

Also I will not take any speech, writer, or book to heart blindly. I will question, I will try to make sense, I want answers. I WILL take inspiration where I can find it, I WILL see beauty in words and images, I WILL see kindness where I find it. I KNOW my judgement will never be perfect and I WILL accept that anyone and anything else will never be perfect. Call it ethics if you like.

Just as money can’t buy me love neither can it buy me enlightenment…….