Suicide and mitigating circumstances

It is often stated that suicide, as far as spiritual development is concerned, is a major crime, ie you come to earth to learn hardships while encased in a physical body, to end it all is, basically, opting out of your life plan. O.K but this premiss does not seem to have taken into account, the advances in medical science, put bluntly, things that would have killed you decades ago,can now be overcome to the point where you can be kept alive, but with a very poor quality of life. Surely, if a person is so incapacitated, and wishes to "call it a day" would this still be classed as "opting out", perhaps God should move the goal posts (as they say) so people can pass over without guilt.

[Silver]

I'm fairly certain that 'God' had no such goal posts, but is an invention of man.

[Arcturus]

i think this puts it succinctly http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en...change-suicide

Krishnamurti: If it was intelligence that prompted you to end life that very intelligence would have forbidden your body to deteriorate prematurely.

in the link it seems to be saying it can only really be decided by the person in the situation, as all scenario's will be different; and that if you have lived intelligently all your life then that intelligence will make the right choice at the right time; if you haven't lived intelligently then you'll probably make the wrong choice.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by vecta3

i think this puts it succinctly http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/the-urgency-of-change/1970-00-00-jiddu-krishnamurti-the-urgency-of-change-suicide

Krishnamurti: If it was intelligence that prompted you to end life that very intelligence would have forbidden your body to deteriorate prematurely.

in the link it seems to be saying it can only really be decided by the person in the situation, as all scenario's will be different; and that if you have lived intelligently all your life then that intelligence will make the right choice at the right time; if you haven't lived intelligently then you'll probably make the wrong choice.

A person is only capable of so much, everybody has their limitations and why would a compassionate 'God' judge anyone for doing such a thing, especially if the individual can't see as well as another person for whatever reason. We have to admit that the person who does that is under extreme duress.

[trixiewilbury]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

A person is only capable of so much, everybody has their limitations and why would a compassionate 'God' judge anyone for doing such a thing, especially if the individual can't see as well as another person for whatever reason. We have to admit that the person who does that is under extreme duress.

Absolutely. I think the will to live is placed in us so strongly that it is only under the most extreme stress, desperation, frustration, and hopelessness imaginable that a person would choose to end their lives in this way. Suicides are tragic. My sister said that when she tried it came from a very selfish place...but I know she felt very alone, and miserable, to even attempt it. I'm glad she's still around to talk about it. Not everyone is so fortunate.

If human beings weren't so instilled with this intense survival instinct, it's possible many more would be ending life freely to get back to love, peace and God. I think the fear of death is there for a reason. Surviving a horrible situation, and living to tell about it, and growing from it, must help a soul's growth tremendously.

I've been to the edge, a few times. When it came right down to it, a part of me wanted to live; maybe that part was me. I even heard a voice in my head telling me I had a pretty good life. I had to shift my values around. I live for my ego now. I live to be competitive and to build up my sense of self. I don't know what happens when we die. I only know that if this is the only life I get, then life is precious. We're all in this together, we all suffer together, and we will die together.

[Arcturus]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

A person is only capable of so much, everybody has their limitations and why would a compassionate 'God' judge anyone for doing such a thing, especially if the individual can't see as well as another person for whatever reason. We have to admit that the person who does that is under extreme duress.

hi sg, there wasn't any advice pertaining to what someone should or should not do and no mention of god or judging. the talk actually leaves space for suicide. krishnamurti himself could have prolonged his own life a little but chose to stop being kept alive, but then his body could no longer exist on its own and never again would and he couldn't move far etc, so he allowed his body to die. so dying when you could live can sometimes be intelligent according to what is said here. if someone ends their life early and claims it to be an intelligent act, which is how its justifed (and maybe rightly)...if their body is ill and in pain due to poor lifestyle can they claim intelligence? still, it might be right to do it, as its too late to turn back the clock.

the question raised is not what should be done in anyone situation as thats impossible to say...just asks the question about intelligence,,,but then no human has this (in the total sense) so whatever decision we make will be wrong....did you read the article? hope you're well x

the op is really referring to suicide in times of physical illness not in times of physical health; two different things i think.

and i like where it says in the op about being kept alive with no quality of life; by using pills etc...which makes us just the walking dead. we all commit suicide every day...laziness with diet is slow suicide...speaking generally and not to yourself

Originally Posted by jondav

It is often stated that suicide, as far as spiritual development is concerned, is a major crime, ie you come to earth to learn hardships while encased in a physical body, to end it all is, basically, opting out of your life plan. O.K but this premiss does not seem to have taken into account, the advances in medical science, put bluntly, things that would have killed you decades ago,can now be overcome to the point where you can be kept alive, but with a very poor quality of life. Surely, if a person is so incapacitated, and wishes to "call it a day" would this still be classed as "opting out", perhaps God should move the goal posts (as they say) so people can pass over without guilt.

Perhaps we should move the goal posts and decide for ourselves.

I have read tomes from many different Religious paths and none of them ever suggested that I was required to become the guinea pig of medical science and be kept alive by unnatural means--until I am no longer able to care for myself and I leave those I love with staggering debit.

I have free will and the responsibility to choose. Would I hold a gun to my head and pull the trigger--no--but would I opt for cancer treatments that allow someone to poison and radiate my body--probably not.

I choose quality of life--not quantity. I will welcome my destiny--besides--to my way of thinking--it is just another great adventure.

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

I'm fairly certain that 'God' had no such goal posts, but is an invention of man.

I don't usually "this" forum posts...

But This.

However, when discussing the topic of suicide, I still believe that life should be clung to for every last possible moment, unless you are mentally "gone", such as Alzheimer's or severe brain damage. I mean, at that point, you would just be a spirit trapped in a broken machine, and that's tremendously sad. But as far as other types of physical suffering, I think if you're ever suffering that much, it would be good to contribute to science, and submit yourself to a little more suffering, and tell them you would be happy to help with experimental medicines for your condition. That way, as you leave, you help make progress, toward making sure that less people suffer the same fate. And who knows? Maybe one of them will work, and you get your life back! When I was born, the best prosthesis we had, was rubber limbs. My mom met a guy a few years ago with a mechanical arm, and he could do basic tasks with the arm. By the time I die, I expect there to be people who were born without arms or legs, who will have fully functional replacements. :) Just an example of how fast medicine can move when people help, and say: Okay! I'll be the guinea pig!

So it's debatable at best, but I believe everyone has the right to decide when their own life is over, within reason. Extreme suffering is definitely within reason.

[Spiritmessenger]

Originally Posted by LadyTerra
Perhaps we should move the goal posts and decide for ourselves.

I have read tomes from many different Religious paths and none of them ever suggested that I was required to become the guinea pig of medical science and be kept alive by unnatural means--until I am no longer able to care for myself and I leave those I love with staggering debit.

I have free will and the responsibility to choose. Would I hold a gun to my head and pull the trigger--no--but would I opt for cancer treatments that allow someone to poison and radiate my body--probably not.

I choose quality of life--not quantity. I will welcome my destiny--besides--to my way of thinking--it is just another great adventure.

Hi LadyT
I coudn't agree more, how true


And as some one else stated we are all killing ourselves slowly with the junk food that we consume, alchohol, cigarettes, car fumes, drugs, legal or other wise, either way, we are all committing suicide just at a slower rate.