Is Satan a conscious being or a metaphor?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

God didn't heal Lucifer because we (including Lucifer) have free will to choose God or self, and God will not go against the choice that is made. I'm not sure where God stands on loving and forgiving Lucifer, I'd have to look into it.

One obvious explanation could possibly exist within redemption itself.

It is not enough to seek mercy from the all-merciful without repentance of sin...and even though Jesus may have died for this purpose, it doesn't mean to say that we can go to Church on Sunday, do all our "hail Mary's" and then live in sin for the other 6 days of the week going "I don't have to worry, because Jesus has my back...He'll put in a good word for me with the big dude upstairs". Jesus died for remorseful sinners who are wracked with guilt over it and who have learned their lesson and seek Divine forgiveness if human beings cannot forgive them.

There's probably no doubt that God is still waiting for Lucifer's apology...but getting a proud angel to admit wrongdoing and seek atonement could take an eternity and besides, if that were to happen, Christendom would have to find a new scapegoat and that won't be easy.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by barrynu

Yes I understand you.
But I think loving yourself has got baggage now as it can be seen as pride.

To many, it can be seen as this, when in fact, pride has nothing whatsoever to do with it, but that's the level at which most human beings operate.

Pride is of the ego but true love is not.

One can be proud of their appearance, their intellectual and sporting achievements, their own self-confidence and esteem and go "I love myself" when they are only acknowledging what it is they love about themselves.

When I say that "I love myself", I am directly acknowledging the Supreme within my own heart by using the only words available to me...and of course, I could say "I love God" but it is much of a muchness there...however, I don't associate "self" with "God" as a mental or ego exercise either.

God is within me and love moves my lips and makes sound come out...sometimes this is nonsensical...but such is the nature of love.

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It is interesting to note that mankind has put its own spin on the version of events since it happened, to serve an agenda...whatever that agenda is.

However, if God can do anything, why not just destroy Satan, instead of flooding the Earth and destroying millions of His own creation? Wherefore was their 'free will' in wanting to live?

How about to destroy a life is Satanic? Even if the decision to not kill results in destroying other millions. And if reincarnation is true then there is always another try.

There are also many inconsistencies within the whole Christian account.

I also have another side to me...I'm a non-dualist in that either ALL is God, or else nothing is.

Although I do agree that Lucifer was proud and not really humble. He dared to question Divine authority...probably thinking that he 'knew better' than God somehow and many would translate this as usurping God's position instead of merely questioning His motives when even that was totally unacceptable for an Angel of even high rank, who was still, essentially a 'slave' to God's law. God demands strict obedience and any form of dissension will be seen as a coup. So, in a bid to assert His superiority over all, including the most highly ranked Angels, an example had to be made...Lucifer became God's 'scapegoat' and made an example to the rest.

God requires us to choose his light and goodness, not an inferior light such as Lucifer, or our own mind truths.

Your weaving of a foolish God story is clever, and as you say you are a non-dualist, so you will probably never accept a story of light versus dark, but this is the Christian and Jewish story, and one that I have come to see as well. I guess this is where we then agree to differ.

That's how I personally see it all as going down.

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[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

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Isn't it all just a 'mind story' though? if not conceived within our own minds, but in the mind of another we thus assume as our own?

I could tell you that there is no 'inferior' and 'superior' Light either, as even a demon is God...if I am to remain true to form and nature as a non-dualist.

Yes, we shall agree to differ because I rely on direct revelation, which may place me at odds with the established version - which only goes to highlight what I was saying previously.

Also, for all intents and purposes relevant to any discussion on such matters, I am not a Christian and that has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage being of course, that I am not bound by Church, Dogma or any of the conditioning surrounding the indoctrination into such beliefs...and the disadvantage being, of course, is that those who are, will only see me as being another blaspheming heathen...and so, nothing can be gained either way, isn't it?

[Shivani Devi]

By the way, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian version of things, where/how does reincarnation fit into all of it? curious.

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Isn't it all just a 'mind story' though? if not conceived within our own minds, but in the mind of another we thus assume as our own?

I could tell you that there is no 'inferior' and 'superior' Light either, as even a demon is God...if I am to remain true to form and nature as a non-dualist.

Actually I only said inferior light because I was referring to Satan, and "even Satan masquerades as an angel of light," but in fact I see it as darkness and disorder that is the opposite of God's light

Yes, we shall agree to differ because I rely on direct revelation, which may place me at odds with the established version - which only goes to highlight what I was saying previously.

Interestingly, I also rely on 'direct revelation', and have merely come to the same conclusion that Christianity in general has come to.

Which if anything goes to prove that we can't fundamentally just trust direct revelation as the truth, otherwise our beliefs would be the same as each other, as well as Muhammad, Buddha and St Paul.

Also, for all intents and purposes relevant to any discussion on such matters, I am not a Christian and that has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage being of course, that I am not bound by Church, Dogma or any of the conditioning surrounding the indoctrination into such beliefs...and the disadvantage being, of course, is that those who are, will only see me as being another blaspheming heathen...and so, nothing can be gained either way, isn't it?

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[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

By the way, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian version of things, where/how does reincarnation fit into all of it? curious.

http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atk...ncarnation.pdf

chapter number 4

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

By the way, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian version of things, where/how does reincarnation fit into all of it? curious.

I believe in my perception, which happens to concur with quite a lot of Christianity, but not with all of it. I find it hard to understand my life and history without reference to personal reincarnation, so I wouldn't be accepted as a Christian either. Nor do I belong to a church or go to church, and I still don't know whether I believe in Satan as an actual consciousness or as metaphor. If I did I would be chatting to my church friends, not SF members. Most of us here aren't fully anything in particular, we're often mish-mashes methinks.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

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Of course, but who is to say that any one persons truth is THE truth, be it 'mine' or 'yours' or 'Buddhas' or "St. Pauls?"

For a direct revelation to be true, the grace of God must bear it out and that will only happen in the due course of time.

Also, as an aside, how many of these revelations and channelings are influenced by the simple power of suggestion?

I mean, I may have been holding back even, when I could say that there was NO War in Heaven, but may have represented a battle on Earth between tribal factions worshiping the same deity.

Like the existence of God, it is something we can never know but only believe...and I guess that speaking with the Angelic Watchers turned the tables somewhat.

Now, of course Christians would say "well, of course you are going to be misled talking to the Angels of Lucifer" and the Angels of Lucifer are going to say "of course you know that the Christians are gonna say that"...and it reminds me of a playground squabble between groups of five year olds.

In the end, I just said "take me to your leader" and I did not stop saying that for years...in the end, I found the leader of ALL the Angels...the host of Heaven AND Hell...the greatest Shining Angel I have ever seen...in Sanskrit, Great is Maha and Angel is Deva...and so, I worked my way round about back to Maha Deva...back to Shiva.

[django]

Originally Posted by captainamerica

http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atk...ncarnation.pdf

chapter number 4

Thanks for sharing this link captainamerica, very interesting.