Is Satan a conscious being or a metaphor?

[django]

Regarding Lucifer:

Our text [Ezekiel] tells us that this king [Lucifer] was a created being and left the creative hand of God in a perfect state (Ezekiel 28:12,15). And he remained perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him (verse 15b). What was this iniquity? We read in verse 17, “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride.

Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Bravo. I also feel the same. In fact, the only time I have any disorder and chaos in my own life is when I try to assert my own will over Divine Will.

If any analogy is to be made here between Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and the like is that Satan can be synonymous with the human ego.

Buddhist will take as much zeal to rid the pure consciousness of egotistical interference as a Christian would with 'casting out demons' and it is the role of conscience vs consciousness which gives rise to the whole phenomenon.

It has been said that I will 'go to Hell' and I will retort "If that is God's will, then I will gladly submit, with a song of praise on my lips".

I love the Lord with all my heart and soul and if, perchance, this is some 'trickery of the Devil', what would he thus gain by tricking me into unconditionally loving an almighty, all powerful 'being' who is the ultimate source of everything in existence?

Thanks for the "Bravo"...I think that's the first one I'v got in life and the rest of the post I agree with.

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It is not so 'cut and dried' as that.

Gnosis imparts the requirement for the realisation of the Divinity which is imminent to also be able to also realise the connection to the whole transcendent aspect of it.

It is said that "the Lord helps those who help themselves" and that blind faith in a 'sky daddy' (I couldn't think of any better term here) cannot shift the onus of personal responsibility for ones actions by seeking salvation from an external source that can't really be known or understood beyond a mere concept. It all has to come from within the heart through knowledge that reaches beyond the mind and into that 'peace that passeth all understanding' and only then can a 'concept' have any true meaning beyond the metaphor.

When Jesus said "seek the Kingdom within" he didn't have to take on any of the trappings of gnosticism. He talked about seeking in quite a few parables, and when we have found 'the pearl of great price' within to nurture that exclusively. No sky daddy's needed really. Find it within first, and then call on Jesus when needed. Everything else will happen automatically from there.

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by django

Regarding Lucifer:

He loved himself so much that he destroyed himself.Is that it?
We are told to Love our self and be strong and this is essential for a good life.

But if we love our self too much we are on the wrong path so where is this line that we should not cross as regards to love.
It doesn't make sense to me.

Pride is the problem as was mentioned so self Love can turn to pride....Is that the original message to human kind.....be careful with love,it can destroy you.
something to ponder on for me............

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

Regarding Lucifer:

It is interesting to note that mankind has put its own spin on the version of events since it happened, to serve an agenda...whatever that agenda is.

However, if God can do anything, why not just destroy Satan, instead of flooding the Earth and destroying millions of His own creation? Wherefore was their 'free will' in wanting to live?

There are also many inconsistencies within the whole Christian account.

I also have another side to me...I'm a non-dualist in that either ALL is God, or else nothing is.

Although I do agree that Lucifer was proud and not really humble. He dared to question Divine authority...probably thinking that he 'knew better' than God somehow and many would translate this as usurping God's position instead of merely questioning His motives when even that was totally unacceptable for an Angel of even high rank, who was still, essentially a 'slave' to God's law. God demands strict obedience and any form of dissension will be seen as a coup. So, in a bid to assert His superiority over all, including the most highly ranked Angels, an example had to be made...Lucifer became God's 'scapegoat' and made an example to the rest.

That's how I personally see it all as going down.

[barrynu]

Why didn't God heal Lucifer?
Why didn't God leave his flock alone and go and search for Lucifer?
Why didn't God forgive Lucifer?
Why did God stop loving Lucifer?

now I really am feeling sorry for lucifer .....very strange feeling I'm having right now

[django]

Originally Posted by barrynu

He loved himself so much that he destroyed himself.Is that it?
We are told to Love our self and be strong and this is essential for a good life.

But if we love our self too much we are on the wrong path so where is this line that we should not cross as regards to love.
It doesn't make sense to me.

Pride is the problem as was mentioned so self Love can turn to pride....Is that the original message to human kind.....be careful with love,it can destroy you.
something to ponder on for me............

I don't think we are told to love ourselves, at least not in the bible. We are told to love others and to love God and to be humble about our own achievements. To do this authentically takes time, but the end goal is always clear, it's not about self.

[django]

Originally Posted by barrynu

Why didn't God heal Lucifer?
Why didn't God leave his flock alone and go and search for Lucifer?
Why didn't God forgive Lucifer?
Why did God stop loving Lucifer?

now I really am feeling sorry for lucifer .....very strange feeling I'm having right now

God didn't heal Lucifer because we (including Lucifer) have free will to choose God or self, and God will not go against the choice that is made. I'm not sure where God stands on loving and forgiving Lucifer, I'd have to look into it.

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by django

I don't think we are told to love ourselves, at least not in the bible. We are told to love others and to love God and to be humble about our own achievements. To do this authentically takes time, but the end goal is always clear, it's not about self.

Yes I understand you.
But I think loving yourself has got baggage now as it can be seen as pride.

I need another word which may be respect yourself and care for yourself as if you are not happy yourself,you cannot love others.

I think it is about self because when our "self" shines,it rubs off on other people.we all have people we adore and get joy from.Poets,Musicians,Artists,Teachers.....these people may not all he happy but their "Self" is strong and is felt by many...........A strong self I see as being important to everything

[barrynu]

Time to take a break.It was nice talking and sharing