GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You must be ignoring mine and the teaching that directly said egolessness (anatta)

Are you saying what I have referenced is wrong?

I find it 'odd' that the ultimate goal for Christians and Buddhists is the same - no ego.

First. Congrats to B J. on this good O.P.

You have done a great jod on it. So good in fact that I wanted your views on the following Gnostic text. I promise not to derail.

I also had a question on Jesus saying he would make Mary into a man but think I dithered out what he meant. If you have a comment on that, again, without derailing, please give it.

We can also move to P.M. if you prefer. Thanks.

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On Righteousness

The rightousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality. There is equality in the heaven which is stretched out in all directions and contains the entire earth in its circle. The night reveals all the stars equally. The light of the sun, which is the cause of the daytime and the father of light, God pours out from above upon the earth in equal measure to all who have power to see. For all see alike, since here is no distinction between rich and poor, people and governor, stupid and clever, female and male, free men and slaves. Even the irrational animals are not accorded any different treatment; but in just the same way God pours out from above sunlight equally upon all the animals. He establishes his justice to both good and bad by seeing that none is able to get more than his share and to deprive his neighbor, so that he has twice the light his neighbor has.
The Sun causes food to grow for all living beings alike; the universal justice is given to all equally. In this respect there is no difference between the species of oxen and particular oxen, between the species of pigs and particular pigs, between the species of sheep and particular sheep, and so with all the rest. In them universiality is manifest in justice. Furthermore all plants after their kind are sown equally in the earth. Common nourishment grows for all beasts which feed on the earth´s produce; to all it is alike. It is regulated by no law, but rather is harmoniously available to all through the gift of him who gave it and commanded it to grow.
And for birth there is no written law; otherwise it would have been transcribed. All beings beget and give birth alike, having received by justice an inate equality.The Creator and father of all with his own justice appointed this, just as he gave equally the eye to all to enable them to see. He did not make a distinction between female and male, rational and irrational, nor between anything else at all; rather he shared out sight equally and universially. It was given to all alike by a single command. As the laws could not punish men who were ignorant of them, they thaught man to transgress. For particularity of the laws cut up and destroyed the universal equality of the divine law...
The ideas of Mine and Thine crept in through the laws which cause the earth, money, and even marriage no longer to bring forth fruit of common use. For God made vines for all to use in common, since they do not refuse the sparrow or the thief; and similarly wheat and other fruits. But outlawed sharing and the vestiges of equality generated the thief of domestic animals and fruits. For man God made all things to be common property. He brought the female to be with the male in common and in the same way united all the animals. He thus showed rightousness to be a universal sharing along with equality. But those who have been born in this way have denied the sharing which is the corollary of their origin and say Let him who has taken one woman keep her, whereas all can share her, just as the other animals show us. With view to the permanence of the race, he has implanted in males a strong and ardent desire which neither law nor custom nor any other restraint is able to destroy. For it is God´s decree......
Consequently one must understand the saying You shall not desire as if the lawgiver was making a jest, to which he added the even more comic words Your neighbors goods. For he himself gave the desire to sustain the race orders that it is to be supposed, though he removes it from no other animals. And by the words Your neighbors wife he says something even more ludicrous, since he forces what should be common property to be treated as private possession.

Sharing single women???

Perhaps this is why Gnostic Christians are sometimes accused of weird sexual practices.

Is this why Temple Prostitutes were so common in Christianity?

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I find it 'odd' that the ultimate goal for Christians and Buddhists is the same - no ego.

Buddhism, is a meditative thinking system and in all such systems, no ego is sought so that the mind will allow the pineal gland to open our third or single eye.

Christianity started that way before being literal readers of myths, but went astray by looking without for god instead of within.

They forgot the teachings of Jesus.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

Regards
DL

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I find it 'odd' that the ultimate goal for Christians and Buddhists is the same - no ego.

Yes, but the end results are different as are the practices.

Jesus talks about sharing the light, helping others an awful lot like the practices of Kashmir Shaivism. Buddhism it is not possible and they have no such practices.

[sky]

Lord,

Make me an instrument of your peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love.

Where there is injury, pardon.

Where there is doubt, faith.

Where there is despair, hope.

Where there is darkness, light.

Where there is sadness, joy.

May I be a safeguard for those who have no protection,
A guide for those who journey along the way;
For those who wish to go across the water,
May I be a boat, a raft, a bridge.

May I be a home port for those who yearn for landfall,
And a lamp for those who long for the light;
For those who are tired, may I be a resting place,
For all who need help, their servant.

O Divine Master,

Grant that I may not so much seek

To be consoled, as to console;

To be understood, as to understand;

To be loved, as to love.

Like the great earth itself and other eternal things,
Enduring as the sky itself endures,
For the boundless multitude of living beings,
May I be the ground and vessel of their lives.

For every single thing that lives,
In number like the boundless reaches of the sky,
May I be their sustenance and nourishment
Until they pass beyond the bounds of suffering.

For it is in giving that we receive.

It is in pardoning that we are pardoned.

It is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.

Amen.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Yes, but the end results are different as are the practices.

Jesus talks about sharing the light, helping others an awful lot like the practices of Kashmir Shaivism. Buddhism it is not possible and they have no such practices.

??

They have their version of the Golden Rule.

I have both Christianity and Buddhism in my extended family and put Buddhists and their social hearts and ways way ahead of the homophobic and misogynous Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

[sky]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

??

They have their version of the Golden Rule.

I have both Christianity and Buddhism in my extended family and put Buddhists and their social hearts and ways way ahead of the homophobic and misogynous Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

You have to study Buddhist Sutras/Suttas to understand them, one thing about them is you will not find any ' Violence ' or encouragement of violence.....

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

??

They have their version of the Golden Rule.

I have both Christianity and Buddhism in my extended family and put Buddhists and their social hearts and ways way ahead of the homophobic and misogynous Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

You are talking about the Christian church, not the teachings or practices of Jesus.

Or you could say you are still talking about social issues compared to the inward path both Buddhism and Jesus talks about.

Originally Posted by sky123

You have to study Buddhist Sutras/Suttas to understand them, one thing about them is you will not find any ' Violence ' or encouragement of violence.....

I agree.

The complete opposite of Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You are talking about the Christian church, not the teachings or practices of Jesus.

Or you could say you are still talking about social issues compared to the inward path both Buddhism and Jesus talks about.

Where do you get your ethics on social issues if not within yourself?

Both religions teach meditation and inward seeking. Christians mostly do not bother.

Christians decided to be brain dead literalists with a supernatural genocidal prick of a god, while Buddhist stayed sane and seek knowledge and wisdom and a natural god.

Regards
DL