Suffering.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

That's a witty line by O'Toole, AhB!

Yeah, I know what you both mean and it's not new to me. I guess because I live with pain on a daily basis, I can sometimes be a bit...

and and and

...about the whole 'not suffering' stuff. To me, "living with it" is about as good as it gets.

Aw I know, Squatchit, it's one thing to talk about not resisting pain, it's another thing altogether to actually put it into practice (and I don't live with pain on a daily basis as you do, but Gawd help me if I'm not a massive hypocrite and I don't resist it when it does arise anyway!). It's like we're hard-wired to struggle, and we really have to be brought to our knees before we can stop.

I'd say 'this too shall pass' but you'd probably give me a cyber-punch if I did so I'll just give you a hug instead

[sky]

The Arrow — Buddhist attitudes to pleasure and pain

The sutta called “The Arrow” further explores the Buddhist teachings on the best way to relate to our feelings. When we encounter something that leads to pain (or even just dissatisfaction) we tend to then start up a whole bunch of mental processes that lead to more suffering — often adding more pain than there was originally. We experience aversion to the dissatisfaction, and then indulge in blaming, and criticism, and generally whine. So it’s as if our response to being shot by an arrow is to shoot ourselves with another arrow.

And often when we experience something pleasurable, we tend to cling to the supposed source of pleasure. Of course, since all sources of pleasure are impermanent, we again end up causing ourselves more pain.

A wiser course of action is to avoid that second arrow by simply experiencing discomfort without reacting to it. We do this by being mindful — cultivating a patient, non-reactive, curious, and welcoming attitude towards anything in our experience that seems unpleasant.

We can also adopt this attitude towards anything that’s pleasurable. We call this attitude equanimity. Equanimity isn’t a state of non-feeling, it’s a state of freedom from habitual patterns of thought and emotion that lead to further pain. When we experience this freedom we become happier.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

That's a witty line by O'Toole, AhB!

Yeah, I know what you both mean and it's not new to me. I guess because I live with pain on a daily basis, I can sometimes be a bit...

and and and

...about the whole 'not suffering' stuff. To me, "living with it" is about as good as it gets.

For those people who do not live with pain on a daily basis in the way you do Squatchit, it is easy to be fixated on knowledge about things and less about how we can deepen and build a move compassionate awareness of life in this way in feeling deeper.. Imo knowledge leads to action if one is actually becoming what they are relating too.

When we consider others in their pain in this way, there is potential that you and others like you support others to build compassion deeper, which leads itself in this way in life.

I know opening to my friend who was born with a disability, I was able to build a deeper compassion in myself just by being open to her and her world, her limitations, her difficulties, her struggles. I remember how it supported me to consider others deeper in this way and open to compassion for those like her.

Deepening into your own Empathy and compassion towards all life is how I see living and understanding suffering in the many ways people suffer. I think each person's suffering is unique to them and their experience, there is one size fits all in the greater scheme of life and experiences. Unless I am willing to understand their world and plight when they intersect my own path, with awareness of them deeper, I can miss some vital aspects of myself that I can awaken too... And of course life continues to show us many ways in which we can find and build this deeper. :)

Living with pain would be difficult. I have another friend who lives with pain everyday of his life. The toll on his body/mind is most difficult. So I can imagine what you must endure with those head banging moments.

[Squatchit]

Now I've got 'Poison Arrow' by ABC stuck in my head - thanks Sky!

Thanks peeps. I rarely grumble and now feel quite humble.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

Now I've got 'Poison Arrow' by ABC stuck in my head - thanks Sky!

Thanks peeps. I rarely grumble and now feel quite humble.

Just a little story....

I have a friend who's a Buddhist Nun, while I was attending a class in her Temple I met a Monk who has an inoperable brain tumor, he's had it for over thirty years, he told me about the pain he suffers on on daily basis, headaches that morphine doesn't touch. I also like you suffer daily pain through Genetic problems so I was interested to have a chance to discuss different techniques of dealing with pain.

He told me that he separates the pain and his body, they don't belong together he said, he taught me another way of looking at chronic pain. Another little tip he gave me was never to say ' I am in pain ' but ' Pain is in me '. Thinking on my chat with him I worked out that suffering and pain are very different, I will have to endure pain but I refuse to suffer, thoughts bring the suffering so they have to go

We all deal with things in our own way and what works for one doesn't for others, it's about finding your way to deal with what the body gives you, hope you find your way

[Shivani Devi]

Namaste.

It is all about the whole attitude regarding suffering, whether it is a thought or not.

We can be in a displeasing, uncomfortable situation that is beyond our control to remedy.

How we choose to react to it is optional.

Take myself, for example - mountains of pain and hurt and a lot of suffering in the past.

Up until now all I did was whine and complain about it - to try and take the 'edge off' and to make people aware of how I felt...maybe on some level to garner sympathy and caring...or at least acknowledgment I was going through hell....my ego was working overtime.

Result? it made no difference except that my negative attitude and 'playing the victim' just created more of the same via Law of Attraction and nobody gave a toss anyway - it was always "I'm sorry, but I have enough problems of my own to deal with, I do not need yours".

In the end, I figured the only ones who would listen are those who get paid to, like a shrink.

In the positive aspect, suffering is like a great motivator that inspires change and introspection. If you are whining about how much you are suffering or making a display of it, the 'suffering energy' or the 'pain energy' isn't being stored inside anymore...it is being dissipated through empty words and improper action.

If the suffering is silent and it is seen as a 'cross of the soul' and the pain is born internally, it can be used as a way to transcend the original cause - it's like a form of mental flagellation and we call it tapasya - to rise through pain or to transform pain, suffering and anguish into enlightenment through austerity.

Suffering is like a forced austerity, so instead of indulging in the suffering, use it to go beyond the suffering.

Yes, suffering is an 'optional thought' because many people who are disabled, poor, in pain, old, lonely etc have made the choice...the conscious choice not to suffer anymore and do whatever they can do, whatever is in their capacity to be happy...because they don't like to 'suffer' even though they are suffering.

So, I have been reading Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl and in it, he said that everything can be removed from man except for one thing - how he chooses to respond to a situation - his attitude, his inner resolve and his personal power. Often this meant the difference between those who would survive the Death Camps and those who did not.

[Squatchit]

Disassociating with pain I find quite difficult to do. I can distract myself or 'live with it' and simply get on with whatever it is I'm doing, or go to bed. But removing it from 'me' - not so easy. Perhaps I'm just one of those people with a low pain threshold.

Occasionally I go into the pain, focus on it wholeheartedly, sort of become the pain, if you like. That tends to make it ease a little...sometimes.

Pain is a rubbish thing to have, so I'm sending a cyber hug to everyone who has it.

Necro - I rarely discuss my condition with anyone. I dislike moaners and refuse to be one myself. However, this does mean a bottling up of ... hmmm ... I suppose anger is the predominant emotion. And that eventually has to explode somewhere - usually at myself, and how frustrated I am.

I guess this thread has drifted somewhat from suffering to pain. Most pain I can deal with, and wouldn't necessarily say I'm suffering, probably because I'm so used to it, it's always there somewhere in the background. But some pain, specifically the biting, throbbing, incessant variety, is an absolute bugger and I'd be hard-pushed to say I wasn't suffering when in the midst of that particular sod.

Enough about me and my woes.

[Shivani Devi]

I also have a very low pain threshold and I have fibromyalgia and somatoform disorder. There are two ways to make the pain a bit more 'bearable'. Meditate on the source or the feeling of the pain, or bring your whole awareness to the third eye area and allow the pain to be a trigger for your full focus there. Either 'become the pain' or 'become your forehead' the pain eases slightly either way. Yes, pain is a terrible thing to have any I accept your cyber hug and give my own to all those, like us who experience it on a regular basis. *hugs*

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by sky123

The Arrow — Buddhist attitudes to pleasure and pain

The sutta called “The Arrow” further explores the Buddhist teachings on the best way to relate to our feelings. When we encounter something that leads to pain (or even just dissatisfaction) we tend to then start up a whole bunch of mental processes that lead to more suffering — often adding more pain than there was originally. We experience aversion to the dissatisfaction, and then indulge in blaming, and criticism, and generally whine. So it’s as if our response to being shot by an arrow is to shoot ourselves with another arrow.

And often when we experience something pleasurable, we tend to cling to the supposed source of pleasure. Of course, since all sources of pleasure are impermanent, we again end up causing ourselves more pain.

A wiser course of action is to avoid that second arrow by simply experiencing discomfort without reacting to it. We do this by being mindful — cultivating a patient, non-reactive, curious, and welcoming attitude towards anything in our experience that seems unpleasant.

We can also adopt this attitude towards anything that’s pleasurable. We call this attitude equanimity. Equanimity isn’t a state of non-feeling, it’s a state of freedom from habitual patterns of thought and emotion that lead to further pain. When we experience this freedom we become happier.

Wonderful post, Sky

Squatch - yeah, you're not one to grumble, but it's all right to have a grumble every now and then. It can be quite therapeutic

[Squatchit]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

I also have a very low pain threshold and I have fibromyalgia and somatoform disorder. There are two ways to make the pain a bit more 'bearable'. Meditate on the source or the feeling of the pain, or bring your whole awareness to the third eye area and allow the pain to be a trigger for your full focus there. Either 'become the pain' or 'become your forehead' the pain eases slightly either way. Yes, pain is a terrible thing to have any I accept your cyber hug and give my own to all those, like us who experience it on a regular basis. *hugs*

After I'd hit submit, I realised I may have inadvertently caused offence with my 'I dislike moaners' comment. This was unintentional. My meaning of posting that part was that perhaps talking about it (as you have done) is a healthier approach to pain/suffering, rather than bottling it all up (as I have done).

I like the idea of becoming my forehead - I shall try that out.