NATURE'S View Vs Your and My View

[OPVerma]

Sometime readers on my thread say that they have their own view on some subject or life - watch TV, enjoy drink, and have a nice sex life and why to bother about spirituality, or Yoga of Science.

IN this 21st. century we now know fairly well about, God Soul, Nature...( Ref 'All the Knowledge in the Universe ISBN 9788190950299 ), hence there is no place for personal view. If your view on the chemical formula of water H2O differs, that would mean, you do not know the fact. Like H2O formula Nature has fixed view for everything. We should try to know the Nature's View through acquiring knowledge, instead of expressing ours.

Nature has provided facilities and prosperity to the Western Fellows because they have been trying to know the answers to the fundamental questions of life. If someone differs with Nature, it withdraws those facilities.

Nature's Forces have aligned and compelling millions of Muslims to kill each other as they hold opposing views. Hurricane Katrina washed out fun and pleasures of Big Easy New Orleans; Freezing cold every year make life hell,; Lurking Burmese pythons make you to live under the shadow of fear.Those who contradict Nature's view would have their next birth in Africa struggling for basic needs.

Nature wants us to utilize our life in seeking knowledge and spirituality , and therefore only this view matters.

[shoni7510]

You have some really interesting views. I wonder where nature's view originate from? I am thinking it starts with some individual's like yourselve for example.

Nature, the ecology, is a system, meaning that everything is functionally
related. It is never static. Has its internal controls with which humans can
wilfully interfere (on the seriously big assumption that non-human life acts in
complete harmony). It is forever adjusting.

Humans have devised symbols in their quest to "understand why" about this
system. But they are no nearer understanding the sense-data of why the
system exists so they try to decipher parts, imagining that
can be done in isolation to the rest.

And, of course, humans are just another part of it, different because their
only predators ultimately are themselves and "natural" disasters.

To me, the problem has arisen through the Biblical - humans alleged to
be supreme and Nature created in our service. It sometimes seems to work
like that but all we do, really, is plunder the ecology, force it to
adjust to new levels that decreasingly support humanity.

You witness scientists and experts arguing about many things (e.g.
climate change; poisoning our food and water supplies) but three facts are
plain:
- humans are in the same culture dish as the rest of the ecology;
- whenever they interfere they force change without having the ability or
means to know how, long term, the change will affect the species generally;
- and their life-span doesn't allow them to adapt at anything like the same
rate to changes they or the system's internal controls create in Nature.

In any period of time we hear reports of how species are becoming extinct. I
read that as the ecology undergoing change. Humans are just another
species.

Yes, seeing Nature as a system can illuminate one's spirituality.

...

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Nature, the ecology, is a system, meaning that everything is functionally
related. It is never static. Has its internal controls with which humans can
wilfully interfere (on the seriously big assumption that non-human life acts in
complete harmony). It is forever adjusting.

Humans have devised symbols in their quest to "understand why" about this
system. But they are no nearer understanding the sense-data of why the
system exists so they try to decipher parts, imagining that
can be done in isolation to the rest.

And, of course, humans are just another part of it, different because their
only predators ultimately are themselves and "natural" disasters.

To me, the problem has arisen through the Biblical - humans alleged to
be supreme and Nature created in our service. It sometimes seems to work
like that but all we do, really, is plunder the ecology, force it to
adjust to new levels that decreasingly support humanity.

You witness scientists and experts arguing about many things (e.g.
climate change; poisoning our food and water supplies) but three facts are
plain:
- humans are in the same culture dish as the rest of the ecology;
- whenever they interfere they force change without having the ability or
means to know how, long term, the change will affect the species generally;
- and their life-span doesn't allow them to adapt at anything like the same
rate to changes they or the system's internal controls create in Nature.

In any period of time we hear reports of how species are becoming extinct. I
read that as the ecology undergoing change. Humans are just another
species.

Yes, seeing Nature as a system can illuminate one's spirituality.

...

Who needs text books when we have Lorelyen.

Seeing nature as a system can illuminate ones spirituality-indeed.

[shoni7510]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Nature, the ecology, is a system, meaning that everything is functionally
related. It is never static. Has its internal controls with which humans can
wilfully interfere (on the seriously big assumption that non-human life acts in
complete harmony). It is forever adjusting.

Humans have devised symbols in their quest to "understand why" about this
system. But they are no nearer understanding the sense-data of why the
system exists so they try to decipher parts, imagining that
can be done in isolation to the rest.

And, of course, humans are just another part of it, different because their
only predators ultimately are themselves and "natural" disasters.

To me, the problem has arisen through the Biblical - humans alleged to
be supreme and Nature created in our service. It sometimes seems to work
like that but all we do, really, is plunder the ecology, force it to
adjust to new levels that decreasingly support humanity.

You witness scientists and experts arguing about many things (e.g.
climate change; poisoning our food and water supplies) but three facts are
plain:
- humans are in the same culture dish as the rest of the ecology;
- whenever they interfere they force change without having the ability or
means to know how, long term, the change will affect the species generally;
- and their life-span doesn't allow them to adapt at anything like the same
rate to changes they or the system's internal controls create in Nature.

In any period of time we hear reports of how species are becoming extinct. I
read that as the ecology undergoing change. Humans are just another
species.

Yes, seeing Nature as a system can illuminate one's spirituality.

...

Well said Lorelyen. I was struggling to make sense of this but it was eluding me. The reference to the Bible is spot on. It is from there that we heard that man has full dominion over nature and he can do as he wishes and fast forward to today global warming, acid rain, chemicals, dying species, overpopulation, to name but just a few.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by OPVerma

Sometime readers on my thread say that they have their own view on some subject or life - watch TV, enjoy drink, and have a nice sex life and why to bother about spirituality, or Yoga of Science.

IN this 21st. century we now know fairly well about, God Soul, Nature...( Ref 'All the Knowledge in the Universe ISBN 9788190950299 ), hence there is no place for personal view. If your view on the chemical formula of water H2O differs, that would mean, you do not know the fact. Like H2O formula Nature has fixed view for everything. We should try to know the Nature's View through acquiring knowledge, instead of expressing ours.

Nature has provided facilities and prosperity to the Western Fellows because they have been trying to know the answers to the fundamental questions of life. If someone differs with Nature, it withdraws those facilities.

Nature's Forces have aligned and compelling millions of Muslims to kill each other as they hold opposing views. Hurricane Katrina washed out fun and pleasures of Big Easy New Orleans; Freezing cold every year make life hell,; Lurking Burmese pythons make you to live under the shadow of fear.Those who contradict Nature's view would have their next birth in Africa struggling for basic needs.

Nature wants us to utilize our life in seeking knowledge and spirituality , and therefore only this view matters.

Absolutely true, we don't have to bother with such things as yoga, meditation, etc, etc, etc (spirituality). Like many posts here we don't have to and I put this into the category of one's spiritual right to do so. Don't tell me what I have to do. Not even God has that right.

In the amazing 21st century people get to choose their desires like never before with such things as vivid video games, wonderful interactive technologies, tv, definitely legalization of things not possible before and we are able to live and be immersed in and escape in a world of fantasy and pleasure. All this has been made for the mind, input like never before. Of course without realizing if one can withdraw from the reality of real life, we can do the same in the reality of spiritual life. Of course this is done to manage and to control is it not.

Yes, nature has properties, a formula of some design and the design is behind it all, did it come from consciousness or is nature the consciousness of some godlike mind. Is it active or passive. It seems passive, artificial, controlled. Imagine when we get the handle on true virtual reality, we won't even have to care.

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by shoni7510

You have some really interesting views. I wonder where nature's view originate from? I am thinking it starts with some individual's like yourselve for example.

Nature's view. Not my view. Under Law of Retribution - if you cause suffering to someone you would deserve similar reaction from Nature . That means if you kill some one, Nature would catch you through state law and send you to electric chair. Or if you escape somehow Nature would make the victim to kill you under similar circumstances in your next life.

Would you like to test ?

Nature = ecology = a system. To begin to understand one needs to understand
"Systems" in the Bertalanffy sense.
He was the Austrian biologist who started work on (biological) cells.
Until he turned up, a cell was thought of as a bag of chemicals bestowed
with this mysterious property called life.

It was him who showed how they worked as a system, interacting with
their environment through the boundaries of their walls. He became the first
proponent of General Systems Theory. You can extend its reach
to include everything in the material universe. Jay W Forrester's
work on Systems dynamics and the rise and fall of cities and empires for instance.

We are no greater in this culture dish than the bacteria we fear that are
the real adaptive winners in the scheme.

I tend to look on humanity not so much as imperfect but naive.
A few species have been bestowed with the ability to break from the harmony
in which the rest of Nature/the ecology works, humanity among
them...or is that really so? Are we just the biggest harbingers of change?

For sure, we are still subject to the many feedback controls that arise from
the functional relationships between everything.
We are as vulnerable as anything else in Nature even if we do think
we can apply open-loop controls to the ecology. It adjusts to what we do
in ways we never expect. Fukushima matters much to frightened humans;
to the ecology it's just another event.

My thoughts anyway.

...