No God

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

My answer would be it is more compassionate to let them "flutter along."
Who am I to tell others what they should or should not do?
Freedom is a human right, though some do try to impose their rules and beliefs on others.

Where does freedom come in to the equation?

It is almost like keep people illiterate or help them to read. Which provides more benefit in the long run?

Which then is viewed as a human right? Is teaching someone to read imposing rules and beliefs onto others?

As an example.. if you are trying to meditate and your practice is to stare at a candle, while listening to music and day dreaming about the bad things that happened to you during the day.

Are you imposing rules and beliefs by telling them they are not meditating or helping them by teaching them how because that is what they want to do?

If you know what they are doing is not going to help them and they are looking to learn something. Silence is not compassion, it is cruelty.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You know that when you are driving there is energy in certain places. You have no doubt about it. Those that can feel energy around them can verify it.

You and I can agree on that. It is a fact. It isn't a fantasy, something of the mind or just my path or your path.

I am just sharing the same thing with you is what I was doing.

i don't doubt what your doing works. if i wasn't getting what i wanted from my practice i may be interested. i have enjoyed transmissions from gurus. today i don't because for whatever the reason may be im getting more out of what i do today. so my interest in beings whom aren't alive are also not interesting to me at this time.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I did not say running lacked or should learn in any certain way. I said to examine the resistance he has to certain things.



Some truth to what you said.. but trusting that some people are on the right path because they think they are unicorns.. sorry if i challenge that they are on the right path.

Your view is if someone is doing something dangerous or doing practices that don't work to let them.. i would rather tell them of the dangers and inform them as to why what they are doing isn't working like they want.

A question..

Which view has more compassion.

Letting someone flutter along because it is their path going nowhere or informing them even it if may upset them?

(I am not saying running is going nowhere. Just a general point of helping others.)

Your giving extreme examples and dangerous practices. We are speaking about running. He is not the one in danger in this situation this is being directed at by you.

I’m talking the choice of spiritual practice that is working for them as things are. Running is not you. You are not him. It’s working for him just fine..where is his resistance and lack?by resisting your offering he reclaims things “his way”.. the way is part of realising your own true self. (Your help in and of your own wisdom aware would understand more clearly that help mastered as its own help in the way it seeks another to learn, is actually your learning )

I could say to you, Examine your own need and desire to have him do what you see, that you think he needs in that resistance you see in him?

Even with good intent, your the one giving out what you can attain as your own wisdom..


I’ve become ‘compassion’ to myself and others as they are. That learning opened me to go deeper into ‘becoming compassion’ . My movements speak for themselves. I don’t need to compare stories of others. . If I’m moving as compassion, I don’t have to ‘THINK’ about what it is I am being. I trust myself and my movements.

We help others to help ourselves. We help others to help others. (We can believe we have good intentions, want to fill the gaps we see in others lack, but it’s all about who’s driving the bus doing this)

There is notable ‘feeling’ level development from one to the other when it comes to helping.

Which one you ask? You are the one seeing and comparing the view of compassion. Compassion is not a view or comparison.

Compassion is compassion.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Noticing requires will, staying with that noticing requires will. When you are that Witness without will you have realized silence in daily life. Each are steps along the path. Even with the depth of the Witness one can still get caught up in issues and fears. The Witness is not the end all be all, nor is it the end of suffering or the end of will.

I think you pinpointed it.

A watcher watching the dual mind as “What Is”.
is different from
The non-dual Witness beyond the dual mind as “What Is”.

The watcher is recommended at the beginning of the path, but as it clears up a lot of ‘defilements’ (I think they call them), in the end the watcher itself becomes a ‘defilement’.

The nondual Witness means absence of the watcher.
If we watch ourselves constantly learning, growing, developing, becoming more scholastic from cross to subtle – then we are comparing ourselves with “other”. We are constantly gaining weight in our egos, because we are comparing ourselves with the “other”.

*

The nondual Witness doesn’t need to be maintained, the Silence, as you jonesboy put it, maintains itself - because it is unmanufactured.

The watcher cannot see or be aware of the Open Witness, but Open Witness is awareness - aware of the non-existing dual wall when it is obscuring the Holistic View of Openness.

And from the watcher to Witness has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with 'one' wishing for attainments of higher spiritual states. That is just the dual-mind fantasy.

*

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Where does freedom come in to the equation?

It is almost like keep people illiterate or help them to read. Which provides more benefit in the long run?

Which then is viewed as a human right? Is teaching someone to read imposing rules and beliefs onto others?

As an example.. if you are trying to meditate and your practice is to stare at a candle, while listening to music and day dreaming about the bad things that happened to you during the day.

Are you imposing rules and beliefs by telling them they are not meditating or helping them by teaching them how because that is what they want to do?

If you know what they are doing is not going to help them and they are looking to learn something. Silence is not compassion, it is cruelty.

When your in teacher mode for too long, balance will continually show you and remind you, your the student too. Why? Because we choose the scene and roles we play. Unbounded awareness knows nothing of roles or the illusive creations..

Humility is a good teacher, when it comes to leading as compassion. When it comes to becoming your own leader. When I believe what I know works for me and others, when I believe I know what is best for another, my learning as the student will learn through that, not to help change them, but to open me to more in myself. (If I’m listening to myself in it)

This is the art of discernment through my consistent open state without roles. Without comparison, needs or desires. I know my presence as I am is open and clear without any of this in me believing I ‘have’ to be doing because. In being present as all I see, In feeling clear in what I see. The space shared will be as both share and require for their process. It’s not determined by me. It will be as it needs and chooses.

We play roles to undo them. It starts in self first.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by sentient

I think you pinpointed it.

A watcher watching the dual mind as “What Is”.
is different from
The non-dual Witness beyond the dual mind as “What Is”.

The watcher is recommended at the beginning of the path, but as it clears up a lot of ‘defilements’ (I think they call them), in the end the watcher itself becomes a ‘defilement’.

The nondual Witness means absence of the watcher.
If we watch ourselves constantly learning, growing, developing, becoming more scholastic from cross to subtle – then we are comparing ourselves with “other”. We are constantly gaining weight in our egos, because we are comparing ourselves with the “other”.

*

The nondual Witness doesn’t need to be maintained, the Silence, as you jonesboy put it, maintains itself - because it is unmanufactured.

The watcher cannot see or be aware of the Open Witness, but Open Witness is awareness - aware of the non-existing dual wall when it is obscuring the Holistic View of Openness.

And from the watcher to Witness has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with 'one' wishing for attainments of higher spiritual states. That is just the dual-mind fantasy.

*

😊..................😊

[sentient]

Originally Posted by JustBe

😊..................😊

On that subject of “What one becomes open to and what one is merges”

Sorry, I can’t help myself ......

Do I still exist?
http://www.meditationcartoons.com/wp...till-exist.gif


Buddha says:
https://i.etsystatic.com/7433965/r/i...40086_8b2x.jpg

*

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by sentient

On that subject of “What one becomes open to and what one is merges”

Sorry, I can’t help myself ......

Do I still exist?
http://www.meditationcartoons.com/wp...till-exist.gif


Buddha says:
https://i.etsystatic.com/7433965/r/i...40086_8b2x.jpg

*

Of course you can help yourself..😉.

I should show those cartoons to my eleven year old nephew who had his existential crises at age nine. A good teacher in the art of natural progression in their own time, simply being around parents open to themselves leading the way in themselves....

[sentient]

^
It is easier for juvenile minds (and those becoming juveniles again) to understand pictures.

Which is why I find those Sutrayanas a bit difficult to follow, they to me are like flat pack assembly instructions.

But please sky123 keep them coming – and belated Thank You!
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=826

*

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

i don't doubt what your doing works. if i wasn't getting what i wanted from my practice i may be interested. i have enjoyed transmissions from gurus. today i don't because for whatever the reason may be im getting more out of what i do today. so my interest in beings whom aren't alive are also not interesting to me at this time.

Sounds good.