Astral experiences related to the prophecy of shift 2012?

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

Also I would like to note that almost every generation of Humans from the Middle-ages to now have had some one saying their generation would witness the end of the world. But we are all still here. I cannot debate the fact that the Earth is not immortal, nothing about the Earth is immortal....

hahaha; I have heard the tale of how people have prophesied: "this is the end time" as well...it is said that Jesus' disciples thought they would witness his return.
We are not all still here!
I claim that Life IS immortal. Death is not an aspect of Life!
Death has no (direct) witness...it is always proclaimed (from a living voice): "there is death". No one can say: "I am dead" -- there is no witness!
We cannot truthfully ascribe qualities to "something else". All things are defined of and by themselves. Death has no voice...it is not real...LIFE is real...I (and you, whoever reads this) are witness to life. Life is a quality of our being!! Life is immortal.
If you can imagine that the Earth is "alive" (as I can), you too can claim that it is immortal.
Sorry to rant here, but just because "common-sense" might say things contrary to what I've expressed here doesn't mean that those thoughts are true, nor that my rant is false.
Peace2U, and thanks for listening

Originally Posted by peacegarden

Magical aren't they?

If there were even a word to describe it magical would be the closest tale indeed!so very dreamy

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

hahaha; I have heard the tale of how people have prophesied: "this is the end time" as well...it is said that Jesus' disciples thought they would witness his return.
We are not all still here!
I claim that Life IS immortal. Death is not an aspect of Life!
Death has no (direct) witness...it is always proclaimed (from a living voice): "there is death". No one can say: "I am dead" -- there is no witness!
We cannot truthfully ascribe qualities to "something else". All things are defined of and by themselves. Death has no voice...it is not real...LIFE is real...I (and you, whoever reads this) are witness to life. Life is a quality of our being!! Life is immortal.
If you can imagine that the Earth is "alive" (as I can), you too can claim that it is immortal.
Sorry to rant here, but just because "common-sense" might say things contrary to what I've expressed here doesn't mean that those thoughts are true, nor that my rant is false.
Peace2U, and thanks for listening

I understand what you're saying. But you can witness other people's life as well as other people's death. Obviously I cannot prove it but I suspect you will also witness your own death from this physical life you're living. I believe that is a main component in the process of the physical shell dying. And when I said we are all still here I meant the Human race in general. Every generation of Man has had someone saying the world was going to end, life on Earth was going to end and the Human race with it. But we are all still here, Humans in general is what I meant. There is no debating that life on Earth for everyone and everything is going to end sooner or later, it's just a question of when. Also like I said people see what they want to see. So if you want to see signs of the worlds ending soon, you will find them. If you want to see signs of the world's consciousness is shifting in this age, you will find them. If you are looking for something specific everything becomes a sign and it becomes impossible to see outside of the microscope.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I understand what you're saying. But you can witness other people's life as well as other people's death. Obviously I cannot prove it but I suspect you will also witness your own death from this physical life you're living. I believe that is a main component in the process of the physical shell dying. And when I said we are all still here I meant the Human race in general. Every generation of Man has had someone saying the world was going to end, life on Earth was going to end and the Human race with it. But we are all still here, Humans in general is what I meant. There is no debating that life on Earth for everyone and everything is going to end sooner or later, it's just a question of when. Also like I said people see what they want to see. So if you want to see signs of the worlds ending soon, you will find them. If you want to see signs of the world's consciousness is shifting in this age, you will find them. If you are looking for something specific everything becomes a sign and it becomes impossible to see outside of the microscope.

Thanks for your understanding; it's nice to actually communicate. I also understand much of what you've said. I do disagree on several points that you ascert however.
Here's one: "There is no debating that life on Earth for everyone and everything is going to end sooner or later, it's just a question of when."
This IS debatable. I do not accept your premise. Here's my argument: nothing happens without a reason. Desire is the ultimate reason for
anything -- WILL. I highly doubt that everyone and everything wants life on Earth to end....
Here's a keypoint that "objective" observation routinely overlooks: TRUTH is not "impartial". There is a reason for being. TRUTH utilizies facts in support of it's desires.

So, ask yourself, have you been looking too intently, focused on finding a specific thing? Can't you think of possibilities that are preferable to being a pawn to established rules of procedure that grant you no free-will?

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

Thanks for your understanding; it's nice to actually communicate. I also understand much of what you've said. I do disagree on several points that you ascert however.
Here's one: "There is no debating that life on Earth for everyone and everything is going to end sooner or later, it's just a question of when."
This IS debatable. I do not accept your premise. Here's my argument: nothing happens without a reason. Desire is the ultimate reason for
anything -- WILL. I highly doubt that everyone and everything wants life on Earth to end....
Here's a keypoint that "objective" observation routinely overlooks: TRUTH is not "impartial". There is a reason for being. TRUTH utilizies facts in support of it's desires.

So, ask yourself, have you been looking too intently, focused on finding a specific thing? Can't you think of possibilities that are preferable to being a pawn to established rules of procedure that grant you no free-will?

I never said that everyone wants life to end on Earth, I said sooner or later it is going to end. Honestly this is not debatable. I am not saying spiritual life is going to end, I am not saying we will not find another livable planet and live on that planet. What I am saying is sooner or later life on Earth is and will end. This cannot be debated for the simple fact that even if Humans manage to survive on Earth for another 3-7 billion and survive every natural event of possible extinction then our Sun is going to burn out and die in 3-7 billion years and likely supernova. Even if it does not supernova our planet will become a desolate ice planet because there will not be enough heat projecting off of our Sun. Our Sun will turn into a Red Dwarf and our planet would have to be thousands or millions of times closer to it to get enough light to be in the Goldie Locks zone. So like I said even if we physically survive every natural disaster or possible extinction event on Earth for another 3-7 billion years there is no way the planet Earth will be survivable unless we become so advanced in technology we can move entire planets or create a new Sun. I did not say Human life will definitely come to an end, I said physical life on Earth and this unfortunately is a fact. It has nothing to do with what I am or am not looking for, it has to do with the scientific facts of astronomy. Something I am very well educated in.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I never said that everyone wants life to end on Earth, I said sooner or later it is going to end. Honestly this is not debatable. I am not saying spiritual life is going to end, I am not saying we will not find another livable planet and live on that planet. What I am saying is sooner or later life on Earth is and will end. This cannot be debated for the simple fact that even if Humans manage to survive on Earth for another 3-7 billion and survive every natural event of possible extinction then our Sun is going to burn out and die in 3-7 billion years and likely supernova. Even if it does not supernova our planet will become a desolate ice planet because there will not be enough heat projecting off of our Sun. Our Sun will turn into a Red Dwarf and our planet would have to be thousands or millions of times closer to it to get enough light to be in the Goldie Locks zone. So like I said even if we physically survive every natural disaster or possible extinction event on Earth for another 3-7 billion years there is no way the planet Earth will be survivable unless we become so advanced in technology we can move entire planets or create a new Sun. I did not say Human life will definitely come to an end, I said physical life on Earth and this unfortunately is a fact. It has nothing to do with what I am or am not looking for, it has to do with the scientific facts of astronomy. Something I am very well educated in.

I repeat, NOTHING happens unless there is a WILL that desires it to happen.
The way I see it, millions of souls have taken to worshiping "truth"; they imagine this thing to be "objective" and, essentially, uncaring. Why should I worship an uncaring God? I don't care about an uncaring God.
The "facts", as you have presented them, serve to support this uncaring God. People seem to think that technology is some sort of saviour...bunk.
Peace2U

P.S: I have investigated "Gnosticism" and found much of value there! Here's a link:http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

I repeat, NOTHING happens unless there is a WILL that desires it to happen.
The way I see it, millions of souls have taken to worshiping "truth"; they imagine this thing to be "objective" and, essentially, uncaring. Why should I worship an uncaring God? I don't care about an uncaring God.
The "facts", as you have presented them, serve to support this uncaring God. People seem to think that technology is some sort of saviour...bunk.
Peace2U

P.S: I have investigated "Gnosticism" and found much of value there! Here's a link:http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

I really don't think the Sun burning out has anything to do with God/Yahweh/Allah. It has to do with the science of stars. Whether anyone wants to Sun or burn out or not it is going to, that is just the reality of space and stars. Gnosticism is largely based off of the finding in the Dead Sea Scrolls, one of those being the Book of Enoch. In other words Gnostics believe in God, it's just not the same conventional Christian God necessarily.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I really don't think the Sun burning out has anything to do with God/Yahweh/Allah. It has to do with the science of stars. Whether anyone wants to Sun or burn out or not it is going to, that is just the reality of space and stars. Gnosticism is largely based off of the finding in the Dead Sea Scrolls, one of those being the Book of Enoch. In other words Gnostics believe in God, it's just not the same conventional Christian God necessarily.

My dear friend, you seem greatly confused. "God" is understood as "the one in charge"...don't you think?
You appear to think "the science of the stars" is in charge. Check out the link I've provided you. Here's a piece from that source:

"Ignorance -- whereby is meant ignorance of spiritual realities -- is dispelled only by Gnosis, and the decisive revelation of Gnosis is brought by the Messengers of Light...", also: "One needs also remember that knowledge of our true nature -- as well as other associated realizations -- are withheld from us by our very condition of earthly existence. The True God of transcendence is unknown in this world, in fact He is often called the Unknown Father. It is thus obvious that revelation from on High is needed to bring about salvation. The indwelling spark must be awakened from its terrestrial slumber by the saving knowledge that comes “from without”."

I believe that knowledge of our true nature is possible -- and desirable.

I am 'susceptible' to reason. Can you convince me of something?

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

A.E., I'm too anxious to wait for your retort.
Here's what I see: You've mapped out a set of rules for the Universe. Under the heading CONDUCT (in the page I've linked), it says: "Such systems [of rules] usually originate with the Demiurge and are covertly designed to serve his purposes." Though the section is speaking to ethics and morality, I believe it applies to what you've been arguing for.
You've been ascerting that physical existance is doomed/destined to extermination. I see this as a idea originating with "the Demiurge", and it is, essentially, 'madness'. It is the idea of inevitable destruction that people require salvation from.
Physical existence is not a bad thing. It is the judgements that have been placed on it by spirit that have been responsible for the pain and misery. Transcendence is not the process of abandoning our physical being; it is the process of un-judging and dispelling the garbage placed here from the spirit world.
= As for the question posed by the OP involving astral-projection; I'm sorry to have nothing to contribute directly toward that =

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

My dear friend, you seem greatly confused. "God" is understood as "the one in charge"...don't you think?
You appear to think "the science of the stars" is in charge. Check out the link I've provided you. Here's a piece from that source:

"Ignorance -- whereby is meant ignorance of spiritual realities -- is dispelled only by Gnosis, and the decisive revelation of Gnosis is brought by the Messengers of Light...", also: "One needs also remember that knowledge of our true nature -- as well as other associated realizations -- are withheld from us by our very condition of earthly existence. The True God of transcendence is unknown in this world, in fact He is often called the Unknown Father. It is thus obvious that revelation from on High is needed to bring about salvation. The indwelling spark must be awakened from its terrestrial slumber by the saving knowledge that comes “from without”."

I believe that knowledge of our true nature is possible -- and desirable.

I am 'susceptible' to reason. Can you convince me of something?

I never said physical existance in a whole is doomed for destruction, I have had to repeat myself several times now. What I said is physical life on Earth is and will end eventually. There are some things that don't need to be mystified. You are taking something scientific and turning it religious and/or spiritual. When the weatherman predicts it is going to rain tomorrow do you start talking about God and enlightenment? Science has it's pros and cons and I have no doubt that science has a relatively decent grasp on the birth, life, and death of stars. I am not saying they have even nearly unlocked all of the mysteries of space, they haven't and they never will.

But there is no question what so ever that stars die, and our Sun is a star which is finite not infinite. You don't question what God is or isn't everytime your car runs out of gas do you? The Sun is a source of energy just as gas is and when that energy is used up it will convert into another form of energy. Because as I am sure you know energy is not created nor destroyed, only converted into another form. Either way the Sun will no longer provide Earth with the heat it needs to remain in the livable zone. Mars was most likely once Earth-like and look at it now. Perhaps there is some form of life on Mars still but I guarantee you it is not exactly the same forms of life that were once there before Mars turned into a big red desert. Some died off, and perhaps some survived and live in caves or underground. Either way things are constantly changing and that is just the reality of this physical dimension. This has nothing to do with rules, because rules were made to be broken but there are principles that govern this physical dimension. The body you are living in right now I guarantee you will expire and you will no longer live inside of it. I never said anything about physical life being bad, good, or anything. I simply said our Sun is going to die, and it is no matter what unless there is divine intervention, huge advancements in technology, or a huge distortion of time.

I am not going to get into what God is or is not to me it would be a pointless discussion. If you're interested in finding out I suggest you read Enoch 1 and read the chapters where Enoch visits his heavenly abode and enscribes messages from the Most High, the Lord of Spirits.