What is Enlightenment?

[Krosser]

I just want to see your definitions of it.

Hello, Krosser, and welcome.

To me, it's what it says, casting light on some aspect of our lives.
In the spiritual context, insights that impart knowledge / understanding about our Selves
and / or our relations with the cosmos. There are technical definitions pertinent
to various religions but I believe we're enlightened many times by, for example,
evaluating our experiences or receiving insights.

If I have a problem and there comes a sudden insight into how it can be solved
I've been enlightened.

Now...what about your definition?

[Starman]

What Lorelyen said above.

[Krosser]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

If I have a problem and there comes a sudden insight into how it can be solved
I've been enlightened.

That would be my definition of it aswell.
firstandlast you could write a book about it

[Johnathanrs]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Hello, Krosser, and welcome.

To me, it's what it says, casting light on some aspect of our lives.
In the spiritual context, insights that impart knowledge / understanding about our Selves
and / or our relations with the cosmos.

Insight and wisdom.

[firstandlast]

Enlightenment is a mythological conception, it only exists in the mind; that is if you believe in such a thing, in order to obtain it you must realize what else can exist born of the mind, and face all those things you ignored, that you created and left behind! AND DEAL WITH THEM THIS TIME!

And this is just a metaphor, for living in the myth of our life; so that life appears to us as a myth, and we live in the mythology that tells us our life is not real, unless we believe in the myth for a myth that can't feel, oh but a little bit of the awe that they could find with the tongue of the one thing that is true-- and that is enlightenment is the myth of life, but when life begins; the true myth will be life--

So enlightenment does and does not exist; because it lives but could, does not, will not, ever be the light you think it is; cuz the true light is what the view of light hides from you face when you think you removed ignorance, but you only deepened the kiss--

It's just all about how your relating to the people who honor you, which gives you great power and that is something that our species as an existence hasn't experienced yet as the non-linear system is interesting but would be too much for our minds, when we are just children and children of the light before it truly shines-- So that we think the light is not dark, and so we don't know the true infinite ways, so that even the saints are allusions to the way, so that we would know as well as I do know, that I am just word within the truth, and that word could be enlightened, but I promise you; I was the way of the fool, and to foolish to avoid it! So that my myth was aligned with it so that I could see my own lineage and passage in greater personality through out time-- And many others as well all of varying types, and all of them will be struck and striked when they see all whom really is on their side, cuz the division of who is enlightened and who isn't is a totally different story in creation if there is no difference between what you see now and what you will recognize in front of you, so to accept it as different means to not have gone all the way--

And I imagine that is a tease to someone who wants to be understood but cannot speak to anyone except in the way of the language that it could best be understood by the language of approach-- Cuz how could enlightenment be any different if it reaches the one thing that claims it can't be!? the logic they have is actually kind of frighting, but only after a little tour by the right part of yourself-- Oh well, its hard to convince others that have winced so many times at others who have made so many seeming illusive claims, so that when they come upon someone different, who is made of the same common name, that they don't have patience to listen when someone doth not speak the same game.. not even the same language, but the same language we all speak in name-- love, and we have to learn it, but someone has to show it, to see it, and to understand how the self is not a thing conceited, but we were concieted when we concieved of the notion that we could only speak for one person but that person should not speak to much different about itself without respecting others; when others are actively telling them not to even be themselves to respect someone--

I do truly get disgusted at the use of honor, which by weight of virtue governs you way; so that when you do not know that your lover is in control, or when it is and when it isn't such to say that way, but sometimes they honor you enough to influence which is governing by weighing of value upon the scales of justice the true winds of the sea that truly part everything-- And I am just beginning to understand this concept of wrath! anger anger anger, what do we do with that! hmm hmm march on will I.. only quietly in the middle of the night; that is when and where I do occur and work.. just the nature of the other, and the lovers to be dealt with, but most of here still need to learn how to deal with each others lives, before they even need to be dealing so directly with the other side, but the other side would help clarify ourselves to relate and be known--

But I am disgusted by all thats busted here, not I hate it; not anything in specific, but the whole outcome of the arrangement; makes a violent kid who wiped his hands when he realized his, and than his hands would be red from holding back from the angst that he hid (cuz he know what they did, but could not see them doing it; just like he can talk to people straight to the head, and if he do it do directly, people forget me or get all flustered and frustrated), cuz love is the reason we need time--

But love is pain, pain is a part of love; but pain is there for us, but we treat it like its the thing we disgust; and so we murder the killer and kill all the people who would commit murder if we considered what they did to be as bad as death), and we get rid of the symptom; and even if we rehabilitated them, we still don't heal and mistake temporal bliss and nice; as a concept of healing-- But healing is painful, and painfully wielded, upon the true naked self which is at its most vulnerable, can you surrender yourself to fear!? and I mean that so that such you doth accept the fear and don't make it go away! how do you dance with the things you blame!? and so how can have enlightened if they can think they need to do something that is mythic in their loving, cuz they don't yet love what they made, but I do; I do.. And I know you do too, thats why its hard. I see it-- Its just hard to love, when are choices are incoherent and skewed by the context thats based on the forms and not the living relationships that the forms in truth would shine with meaning-- Everything, I mean I SEE IT-- EVERYTHING GLITTERS LIKE GOLD AND THIS GOLD IS FOOLS GOLD IF YOU THINK ITS IT; THE MEANING IS LIVING, WE LIVE IN MEANING, AND WE MEAN LIFE! so what can life mean if life doesn't mean you? where have you been? the underworlds been the path of all of us too, and we mistake the light for the light and not the shadow in its grave that gave the light its color and colorless ways-- Beyond male and feminine, when they have already been reconciled in fact they were always together, that not the issue that misleads us from the tree trunks of our roots--

Phew. Well, that's some definition of enlightenment. Not sure I can agree with it all - the idea you espouse that love is pain as if love has to be painful for instance. What of those who can love while being at peace in themselves and with the object of their love?

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Enlightenment is a mythological conception, it only exists in the mind; that is if you believe in such a thing, in order to obtain it you must realize what else can exist born of the mind, and face all those things you ignored, that you created and left behind! AND DEAL WITH THEM THIS TIME!

Well, much of the terminology and discussion appearing on this site concerns constructs that only exist in the mind. But we get by through talking about them, attempting to express ourselves and finding common ground, being apprised of differing viewpoints and perhaps expanding our understanding. (Is that not enlightenment, if it throws new light on our interpretations?) It relies on us having some knowledge of the signs in common so we can interpret them at all. Our understanding though is always unique to us individually.

The close of your comment (as quoted) is interesting to me in that it hints at something I often peddle here: that until you explore the shadows (of your being) you can't bring what's there into the light.

Regardless of how mythical and illusory you regard life, we have to live it....or take the appropriate action.

...

[firstandlast]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Phew. Well, that's some definition of enlightenment. Not sure I can agree with it all - the idea you espouse that love is pain as if love has to be painful for instance. What of those who can love while being at peace in themselves and with the object of their love?



Well, much of the terminology and discussion appearing on this site concerns constructs that only exist in the mind. But we get by through talking about them, attempting to express ourselves and finding common ground, being apprised of differing viewpoints and perhaps expanding our understanding. (Is that not enlightenment, if it throws new light on our interpretations?) It relies on us having some knowledge of the signs in common so we can interpret them at all. Our understanding though is always unique to us individually.

The close of your comment (as quoted) is interesting to me in that it hints at something I often peddle here: that until you explore the shadows (of your being) you can't bring what's there into the light.

Regardless of how mythical and illusory you regard life, we have to live it....or take the appropriate action.

...

Sometimes it is hard to see the forces of self that need to be made clear during each medium of communication and how, and that each person has an individual groove; that if I were not to pay close attention to; I might think people were hypocritical, or stupid in their decisions; when really our exact inability to communicate which brought forth the construction of knowledge and the "prison" we find ourselves unable to remove ourselves from the very thing we think will bring us our freedom--

So though we move like the stars; since we cannot recognize them as alive, we do not realize everyone we come across isn't making choices based on the situation which is surface consciousness; but that such things arise in formation which only allows the best decision in your highest nature to be made, yet to hide that; we had to make the highest nature appear different and separate from our own--

So, the secret of immortality lays in myth, because myth is where we exist beyond ourselves; myth is the gate to the underworld-- Every immortal being lives on in our world as the ideas and body of references that evolve out of the wisdom originated by the being who ascended with it-- I personally learned this from Nikola Tesla-- As such beings evolve in the higher lodges of mythical reference (the stars), the more their existence plays out in our world-- So if you notice a trend, or popularity taking place, you can see the spirit as it relates to ourselves as a physical being-- So Nikola Tesla being discovered and revered in new thought, may appear like people making choices to open their mind, but in truth the same thing is experienced as more forms than to be counted, because who they are relating to is becoming that which we make of them in spirit and experience-- But for them, they experience it as their own effort and sacrifice (by focal pointing their qualities as to obscure all other qualities in its presence)--

So I am not talking about illusive; true or false-- But degree's of perception, and degrees of a forms within all perspective-- So myth is hugely important; as it is the gate way to merging your dreams with waking state-- Which I am in the process of doing; the world has become more dream, but a meaningful dream; but my physical experience as it becomes more dream; allows the dream to become more real, and the interplay gives rise to increasing meaning, to the extent that those around me are increasingly experiencing the same thing, but that unless they align to the myth I can provide, which allows one to carry in myth those things that do not yet have a myth of their own in a harmonic way-- Until then, it appears as if everyone is experience demons or voices in their heads--

Such a thing is interesting, because everyone is talking to me in two levels, the orbit of their perception, and their orbit in myth; which causes them to not know anything of what is going on, and yet totally act in accordance with it--


Hehe; I mean just think about how every great religion of influence speaks in a certain grandiose, and yet speak as if you must remove such a thing-- Lol that is the that is aligned beyond even earth axis mundi; The saints or government were in position to suppress, which nurtures us in a certain way to gain certain qualities-- But, they have been upheld so long, and that they the eternal appearance of the light is what happens when you divide 1 into 2; and one of those two into four-- So that 1/4 see's 1/2 and see's itself made of 1/2, but thinks that 1/2 is the thing that goes on forever--

So that, we mistake expressions of the spirit of self, as solid facts in which to rationalize (our dreaming feet) the perspectives that without myth would not make any sense, because nothing is working together; but that is how we are working together-- Lol, do you see the loops I have made? Its when all these things are reconciled that they can be one can be one another in a way that is like the whole; so that this could not have been truly begun to be made known until the misleading forces of good and evil which remain hidden in motive reach a point in which they served their purpose, which would reveal that otherwise two things that require each other to be defined to exist in consequence of definition; that all spiritual history could be nothing but the deception and proof of how high the deception in ourselves is rooted--


I can say this about the word enlightenment; simultaneous experiences to bring greater light into definition; but as light increases, so to must the dark that defines itself in relation, because the brighter the light becomes, the darker the dark can appear; and that ultimately they can never run out of each other to become infinitely clear of themselves; and yet, from a certain united view, neither of them would appear to get brighter or darker; because you have no comparison to say it was brighter or darker than before! Lol the true eternity--

But again, and this I say firmly; but it is of course your own discernment; which I find annoying that people are so insecure of their own authority they must bash when I decide to give mine the divine honor I feel it deserves in myself; but that will be tough for most people to deal with, to be able to not confuse the negative ego (which is what they create by removing the positive ego, but that the negative ego is positive in appearance in myth)--

Firmly and simply; that anyone who has said they removed ignorance is ignorant to the extreme-- They have met the great degree of evil, which is to not recognize that the goal in their mind, is not as aligned with the goal of all; but is perfectly such on the path to it-- But that if ignorance exists to think of it to be removed; than such it is part of the infinite spirit, than it is like all other aspects and aspects within ourselves-- To be related to, and increasingly understood in relation as to be in increasing harmony-- So that ignorance is redeemed by allowing us to fall in love; but for that we must fall for loves deceptions; which is the spirit that we do not recognize as the same motive in two completely different things, or two worlds so different that the rules of our world couldn't even exist as a rule in another worlds rules-- So to speak--

[Johnathanrs]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Enlightenment is a mythological conception, it only exists in the mind

Every myth has an origin point and started off from reality. History has already proved that what exists in the mind yesterday has become the revelations of today.

[Miss Hepburn]

I never use that term...but off the top...when you/I can feel
the Divine Presence in a wall...touch it and go into an ecstatic state
sensing this Being
that is all around and in a state of perpetual Love.
Door latches, the air you breathe...take your pick.